Bury FC: 1885 to 2019 inc. petition

[jaycee]

But it's his asset. You cant just steal peoples property because you dont like them. That's a rather worrying precedent.

Basically happened to Hicks & Gillette when the rs were in administration in all but name

 

[Tubey]

But it's his asset. You cant just steal peoples property because you dont like them. That's a rather worrying precedent.

I think it's plausible to have a set of rules that state if a club gets into a certain state then it reverts to league ownership and is auctioned. Like repossessing a house.

If such a system existed then Dale would have sold. As it stands, there's nothing in place to stop individuals profiteering off clubs.

 

[PhilM]

Basically happened to Hicks & Gillette when the rs were in administration in all but name

That was the banks reclaiming their loans that were used to purchase the club, through the confiscation of assets and was part of securing the loan.

This is entirely different as the club is simply being run down by the owner and it’s dubious whether any creditors would be able to reclaim money.

 

[Toast]

I think it's plausible to have a set of rules that state if a club gets into a certain state then it reverts to league ownership and is auctioned. Like repossessing a house.

If such a system existed then Dale would have sold. As it stands, there's nothing in place to stop individuals profiteering off clubs.

 

[zzr45]

I think it's plausible to have a set of rules that state if a club gets into a certain state then it reverts to league ownership and is auctioned. Like repossessing a house.

If such a system existed then Dale would have sold. As it stands, there's nothing in place to stop individuals profiteering off clubs.

No. No. No. all that does it encourage short term all or nothing spending. It means that a club spends big on ex premiership players and the like in the hope of getting up the ladder, if not they go back into league ownership and the next sugar daddy rolls in.

It also raises a precedent that if a team is at the trap door to the conference (it will never be anything different.) and is a league owned team - what happens then?

It’s a deal with the devil type thing. Fans demand the best in football. Only the best is good enough- so you need these rich individuals. It’s their trainset and fans have to acknowledge their part in these fiascos.

 

[Frang]

Surely you have to blame Stewart day here

1. For creating so much debt

2. For selling to a fella like Dale.

 

[chrismpw]

But it's his asset. You cant just steal peoples property because you dont like them. That's a rather worrying precedent.

It's his responsibility and he's gone bankrupt. The club is seized to pay off debts and the owner relieved of control. Simple. The same should happen with all business rather than a simple eradication of debt (hard cheese to those he owes) and trade again the next day under a new name.

 

[roydo]

It's his responsibility and he's gone bankrupt. The club is seized to pay off debts and the owner relieved of control. Simple. The same should happen with all business rather than a simple eradication of debt (hard cheese to those he owes) and trade again the next day under a new name.

Dont think he is bankrupt. Far from it I understand.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Mad that the NW clubs don't come together to put together a support package to save them. The money these clubs have got, City. UTD, Liverpool in particular and Everton could all save them with a donation.

Just were does that stop though? Are all the bigger clubs supposed to donate and save every local club having fancial struggles? If not every one, how do we decide which ones are worth saving and which ones aren't? Where does the line get drawn? Its a sad situation but donations like that isn't a workable solution.

 

[PhilM]

Dont think he is bankrupt. Far from it I understand.

Neither do I. From what I've read, which isn't particular clear, he claims he is owed over £3.5m, but as part of the CVA agreements he wasn't calling this debt in.

However, he has already 'transferred assets to other companies he owns for reasons you would presume are related to him recouping some of the personal debts.

He hasn't paid wages and has been happy for fixtures to be postponed, so you can clearly see that he's more concerned about his bank balance than the club's.

I presume that's why isn't willing to sell up yet either, as he simply wants to recoup as much as possible and wants the best offer - maybe off peoples' fears.

Laughably, I also read that he didn't understand the severity of the club's finances when he bought the club, therefore trying to deflect some of the blame.

 

[roydo]

Neither do I. From what I've read, which isn't particular clear, he claims he is owed over £3.5m, but as part of the CVA agreements he wasn't calling this debt in.

However, he has already 'transferred assets to other companies he owns for reasons you would presume are related to him settling some of the personal debts.

I presume that's why isn't willing to sell up yet either, as he simply wants to recoup as much as possible and wants the best offer - maybe off peoples' fears.

Well if I heard correctly today, he isnt "owed" anything, as in, he didnt actually lend the money in the first place; the previous owner did. But after he paid £1 for the club, and assumed the debts, he has been paid circa 25% of the balances from the CVA. Cant remember the numbers, but it was few bob.

 

[Simon Buttle]

Neither do I. From what I've read, which isn't particular clear, he claims he is owed over £3.5m, but as part of the CVA agreements he wasn't calling this debt in.

However, he has already 'transferred assets to other companies he owns for reasons you would presume are related to him recouping some of the personal debts.

He hasn't paid wages and has been happy for fixtures to be postponed, so you can clearly see that he's more concerned about his bank balance than the club's.

I presume that's why isn't willing to sell up yet either, as he simply wants to recoup as much as possible and wants the best offer - maybe off peoples' fears.

Laughably, I also read that he didn't understand the severity of the club's finances when he bought the club, therefore trying to deflect some of the blame.

Oh he is willing to sell but he wants no less than £5m despite only paying £1 for Bury and not putting anything else in, just looking for a massive profit, bloke is a total snake.

 

[PhilM]

Well if I heard correctly today, he isnt "owed" anything, as in, he didnt actually lend the money in the first place; the previous owner did. But after he paid £1 for the club, and assumed the debts, he has been paid circa 25% of the balances from the CVA. Cant remember the numbers, but it was few bob.

Surely, well more hopefully, that can't be true as if so then he's quite simply bought the club to make a quick profit. This was from the Guardian last month:

Dale, who took over the club for £1 from the previous owner, the property developer Stewart Day, in December, is stated in the company voluntary arrangement (CVA) proposal to be owed £3.6m himself.

The proposal – issued to creditors and shareholders by an insolvency practitioner, Steven Wiseglass – states that Dale will not be seeking any of that money back, but the large debt attributed to him gives him a substantial vote in the process. A “virtual meeting” of creditors is to be held on 9 July to approve the CVA, which requires agreement from creditors owed 75% or more of the total debts as well as from 50% of shareholders.

The proposal excludes £3.7m owed in loans taken out with a company, Capital Bridging Finance Solutions, which are secured on the club’s Gigg Lane ground. Bury’s lounge and sports bar, which was also mortgaged for £120,000 to a different loan company, is also excluded. Dale has not yet explained his plans for dealing with those debts.

The CVA proposal confirms that on 17 December some of the club’s trophies and memorabilia were transferred to a company owned by Dale, Bury Heritage, for £48,000 plus VAT, following an independent valuation, as has all the club’s furniture and computer equipment, for which Dale paid £20,000 plus VAT. The statement of affairs attached to the proposal states that HMRC, which issued the winding‑up petition against the club, adjourned again last week, is now owed £1m in unpaid PAYE tax, national insurance and VAT, which was already £624,000 in arrears and has not been paid since February. Trade creditors are owed a further £2.4m.

The total owed to club staff in unpaid wages has not been ascertained, the proposal states. The Guardian has been told that only a small number of staff have been paid their wages for May; Dale did not respond to an inquiry about whether this is indeed the current position.

He said last week that the players, who went public after their promotion to League One in May to say they had not received wages since February, have now been paid up to March, plus half of April’s wages. The CVA proposal states that the players are still owed £406,000, with the coaching staff – the manager, Ryan Lowe, has left for Plymouth Argyle – owed £51,000. The total of £950,662 owed to football creditors also includes £131,000 owed to other clubs in transfer fees and £360,000 to agents. EFL rules require that such football creditors have to be paid in full, while HMRC and other ordinary creditors can be paid 25p in the £1 and still fulfil league requirements.

The proposal states that Dale himself will find the money necessary to finance the CVA. Such an arrangement, which results in a club not paying its creditors in full, does amount to an insolvency event according to EFL rules, and carries a 12-point penalty, likely to be imposed on Bury at the start of next season.

James Frith, the MP for Bury North, has urged Dale to sell the club and said he has spoken to two parties interested in buying it, but it is not clear if Dale plans to sell if the CVA is agreed.

 

[roydo]

Surely, well more hopefully, that can't be true as if so then he's quite simply bought the club to make a quick profit. This was from the Guardian last month:

Who would believe it eh?

 

[chrismpw]

Dont think he is bankrupt. Far from it I understand.

But surely if he's directing and responsible for a club that's bankrupt then he should be accountable.