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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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He’s barely even done that before
People's abilities to see Sigurdsson play one good pass or Pickford to have one good game and just ignore the prior 12 months because of it is truly amazing stuff.

Anyway this is the Carlo thread and he loves Gylfi so we're getting another season of poor attacking play and trying to shithouse wins in tight games. It is what it is.
 
People's abilities to see Sigurdsson play one good pass or Pickford to have one good game and just ignore the prior 12 months because of it is truly amazing stuff.

Anyway this is the Carlo thread and he loves Gylfi so we're getting another season of poor attacking play and trying to shithouse wins in tight games. It is what it is.
You honestly think Carlo is looking at things and thinking "this is fine"?

I know you are currently considering him a very bad manager, but it doesn't take a Wyscout subscription to see we have issues.

Carlo has played football for 60 years, he sees everything we see and another 80% on top.
 
My gripe is if we're going to proceed with an extremely conservative defensive composition we need to just go full fat sam pinball football and stop playing from the back just catapult the ball everytime. Teams have caught on and just apply the full press and we end up sideways passing outside of our box instead parallel and back passing in the midfield.
 
I fully agree.

But we should still have enough cutting edge to take more than 4 points from 6 games against Fulham, Newcastle and Burnley.

If we were creating stuff or looking likely to and we just weren't quite getting the final ball right (Fulham, Brighton do that a lot, for example), I'd be less concerned. But we don't, mate. And that means, to my mind, it's not 100% just a case of needing better players. You can still get poor players to work on certain moves etc that they know will get them into good positions.

I know it's been difficult, with lack of training time etc, but recently we've had individual breaks of 8 and 7 days respectively.

Why though? Like seriously I know everyone keeps saying it but look at those teams. Fulham were on a long unbeaten run and had already made life difficult for Chelsea and then beat Liverpool. Burnley didn’t even lose at Anfield last season and won there this season. These are not rubbish sides or even particularly easy ones to break down.

I’ve just explained that we effectively have two attacking options given the players we have. James wasn’t fit so that reduces it even further. I don’t know why people have these visions that it’s fine that Gomes can barely direct a 5 yard pass properly, and that he won’t tackle, or that Coleman and Holgate can’t cross a ball, or that Davies and Siggurdson can’t seem to run faster than Zlatan jogs these days. People accept all that, but still seem to think these same players will waltz up against premier league opposition and just somehow ‘have enough’ to beat these teams.

We clearly do not have enough. I don’t know how many more times it needs to be proven. I don’t see many premier league teams who have right backs who can’t play football. I don’t see many premier league teams who have midfields that can be dominated by Rotherham at home. I don’t see many premier league teams with midfielders who are ran past more than our midfielders. The harsh truth is that if you take James Docuoure and Allan out this team it’s completely awful and is the bottom half outfit it was last season.

We have no right to win football games in this league. We win them at the moment because we have a world class manager who fortunately recognises what a pile of rubbish he’s working with, we have decent defensive players good at set pieces, and we have two world class strikers supplied by one of the best 10s in the world (when he’s fit).

Now there’s one school of though that says it’s the coaching and there’s another that says it’s the players and this is causing the divide. But if you ask me where I’d put my money between Ancelotti (who has coached DCL, Keane, Godfrey, Holgate, Pickford, Docuoure into their top form) on one side or Gomes Davies Siggurdson Bernard Iwobi on the other I know where I’m putting it.

Those players are terrible, especially the first three who in my opinion are the worst midfielders in the league by an absolute country mile. I think all three would struggle on a Sunday league pitch. It’s been hidden in the past because they’ve always had a Barkley, Gueye, McCarthy around to patch up the holes, but those three were decent, the same way Docuoure is now. As soon as they’re not there or playing badly and we’re looking at someone else to step up then we’re looking at the wrong players. Some fans think there’s a higher level performance in them that Carlo isn’t getting out of them, I think he’s getting as much as he can out of them and they’re still utterly diabolical. They got bossed by Rotherham.
 
You honestly think Carlo is looking at things and thinking "this is fine"?

I know you are currently considering him a very bad manager, but it doesn't take a Wyscout subscription to see we have issues.

Carlo has played football for 60 years, he sees everything we see and another 80% on top.
Maybe he could do something about it then?

I actually think he is largely ok with how we're playing and that he feels like a lot on here do where better players are the real answer. And he's not all the way wrong except that if we want to do something like play in the CL we are probably not ever going to have the talent our competition has so maybe start working things out for that now?
 

I'd rather play Doucoure as a #10. My list of Everton #10s right now: James, Iwobi, Bernard, Doucoure, using a system without one, Gylfi. He's so detrimental and his ability to pop up with an occasional moment hides that 95% of the time he's a liability.

We'll have to agree to disagree. The evidence is there that when we do get him into good positions, things happpen. Not enough things, but more than a lot of our other players.

I don't think our best system has a '10' position in it, though, and yeah, I'd rather have Doucoure there to bomb on into the area in that sense, but he's not done enough of that this season (again a bit tactical though also his own doing too I feel).

We need better, I just think we can concede that Gylfi is up there atm and that is the entire issue with creativity in our squad pretty much summed up.
 
Why though? Like seriously I know everyone keeps saying it but look at those teams. Fulham were on a long unbeaten run and had already made life difficult for Chelsea and then beat Liverpool. Burnley didn’t even lose at Anfield last season and won there this season. These are not rubbish sides or even particularly easy ones to break down.

I’ve just explained that we effectively have two attacking options given the players we have. James wasn’t fit so that reduces it even further. I don’t know why people have these visions that it’s fine that Gomes can barely direct a 5 yard pass properly, and that he won’t tackle, or that Coleman and Holgate can’t cross a ball, or that Davies and Siggurdson can’t seem to run faster than Zlatan jogs these days. People accept all that, but still seem to think these same players will waltz up against premier league opposition and just somehow ‘have enough’ to beat these teams.

We clearly do not have enough. I don’t know how many more times it needs to be proven. I don’t see many premier league teams who have right backs who can’t play football. I don’t see many premier league teams who have midfields that can be dominated by Rotherham at home. I don’t see many premier league teams with midfielders who are ran past more than our midfielders. The harsh truth is that if you take James Docuoure and Allan out this team it’s completely awful and is the bottom half outfit it was last season.

We have no right to win football games in this league. We win them at the moment because we have a world class manager who fortunately recognises what a pile of rubbish he’s working with, we have decent defensive players good at set pieces, and we have two world class strikers supplied by one of the best 10s in the world (when he’s fit).

Now there’s one school of though that says it’s the coaching and there’s another that says it’s the players and this is causing the divide. But if you ask me where I’d put my money between Ancelotti (who has coached DCL, Keane, Godfrey, Holgate, Pickford, Docuoure into their top form) on one side or Gomes Davies Siggurdson Bernard Iwobi on the other I know where I’m putting it.

Those players are terrible, especially the first three who in my opinion are the worst midfielders in the league by an absolute country mile. I think all three would struggle on a Sunday league pitch. It’s been hidden in the past because they’ve always had a Barkley, Gueye, McCarthy around to patch up the holes, but those three were decent, the same way Docuoure is now. As soon as they’re not there or playing badly and we’re looking at someone else to step up then we’re looking at the wrong players. Some fans think there’s a higher level performance in them that Carlo isn’t getting out of them, I think he’s getting as much as he can out of them and they’re still utterly diabolical. They got bossed by Rotherham.
Mate, we're going for 'Europe' (of some description). There is no way on God's green earth we can take 4 points from those 18 on offer and say it's ALL on the players. Carlo has done some daft things, his subs have been crap, and the tactics worse.

I love the fella to bits, I'm still amazed he's our manager. But he's got the team this far and while that shows how good he is, you can't then say the players are totally not to get any credit for that, but all the blame when we keep messing up.

We don't just have two attacking options. We do have more, we showed with the goal the other day, but these patterns of play have to be worked on.

These are Premier League players. They are capable of doing certain things quite well, as we've seen in games when there's been a specific plan. This seems to be the issue. If you give these lads a plan, they'll stick to it. So let's start coming up with some attacking plans, other than give it to James or revert to Digne lobbing crosses in against grock CBs.

Any other manager would get questioned, and has done. So Carlo gets the same questions in my book. We can't have it both ways. We should be beating these teams - not by some right to, but because we are better than them even with some of the dross we have.

We've been blaming 'the players' now for 5 years - over about 4 different squads (the only players here in 2016 when Martinez left that are here now are Coleman, Davies and Holgate).

We're a moments team. That's fine. We don't need to dominate games (we can't do it). We do, however, need to create more 'moments' if we're going to keep playing this way, though.

I'm hoping it'll come. I really am. I have confidence Carlo can do it. But it's not blind faith anymore, not with anyone. We need to start seeing something resembling a sustainable structure or model to just pieces of our attacking play over the rest of the season. And that, unfortunately, isn't going to be relying on James, as much as I'd love to be able to.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree. The evidence is there that when we do get him into good positions, things happpen. Not enough things, but more than a lot of our other players.

I don't think our best system has a '10' position in it, though, and yeah, I'd rather have Doucoure there to bomb on into the area in that sense, but he's not done enough of that this season (again a bit tactical though also his own doing too I feel).

We need better, I just think we can concede that Gylfi is up there atm and that is the entire issue with creativity in our squad pretty much summed up.
Part of the problem I feel is that a #10 shouldn't need that much help having an influence on the game. It is basically their whole job, just to get the ball and make things happen. Even in a bad team he could be doing this but doesn't.

The Doucoure thing was a bit of a joke. I actually think the diamond idea is a good one if we sort out right back so that requires finding a #10 to do the job and for me James can be that. Gylfi as his backup, and we are going to need to play the backup, cannot be that.
 
Part of the problem I feel is that a #10 shouldn't need that much help having an influence on the game. It is basically their whole job, just to get the ball and make things happen. Even in a bad team he could be doing this but doesn't.

The Doucoure thing was a bit of a joke. I actually think the diamond idea is a good one if we sort out right back so that requires finding a #10 to do the job and for me James can be that. Gylfi as his backup, and we are going to need to play the backup, cannot be that.

Yeah I know you like the diamond.

Personally think it's far too easy to play against even with another full-back. That'd help, like, but all teams need to do is press James back, and then he's stuck in our own half, and has to rely on a perfect pass to get us out of it - unless we can get a very, very good ball carrier to play next to him.

Also sends Dom too wide too often, imo.

4-3-3, or a variation of, should be our model imo. I think Carlo agrees, if we had everyone fit - hence the start of the season.

But, sign good players with an ability to get around the pitch, and formations become far less important.

James is the only passenger we can afford to have next season, in terms of energy and power.
 

Yeah I know you like the diamond.

Personally think it's far too easy to play against even with another full-back. That'd help, like, but all teams need to do is press James back, and then he's stuck in our own half, and has to rely on a perfect pass to get us out of it - unless we can get a very, very good ball carrier to play next to him.

Also sends Dom too wide too often, imo.

4-3-3, or a variation of, should be our model imo. I think Carlo agrees, if we had everyone fit - hence the start of the season.

But, sign good players with an ability to get around the pitch, and formations become far less important.

James is the only passenger we can afford to have next season, in terms of energy and power.
If we want to play 4-3-3 we should sell Richarlison. He doesn't fit.
 
Tactics, tactics. I've read Carlo's autobiog and he doesn't talk much about tactics or at least he doesn't give much away.

Sling it up to the big fella and to hell with it.
 
I can't take much more of these Hitler or Stalin arguments about Sigurdsson and Iwobi.

It's bad enough that Chairman Mao is getting called an icon at Boro.
 
Maybe he could do something about it then?

I actually think he is largely ok with how we're playing and that he feels like a lot on here do where better players are the real answer. And he's not all the way wrong except that if we want to do something like play in the CL we are probably not ever going to have the talent our competition has so maybe start working things out for that now?
Hes got results, thats been his goal.

You say he should be working things out, I'm honestly boring myself with this, but hes tried everything and anything, different formations, different players, different systems. I would imagine the sensible conclusion hes reached is that only better players can play better football.

You go from thread to thread calling all our players rubbish, bar a few, then you come in and claim Carlo should have them playing like 1970 Brazil.

You cant have it both ways, which is it, bad players or bad manager? Or I suspect you think both.

He even tried to appease a man child in Youtube Harry in the hope that he would get something from him, but nope, pure pony is pony.

For the record I don't think our players are as bad as you say, I think we have been very unlucky with injuries and if we could get our "best first 11" on the pitch all at the same time I think we would be fine, you know, considering that last time it happened we were totally fine.

But we have no depth sadly, in a lot of positions so when injuries or a lack of form hits, we struggle.

You act like Carlo has is fighting relegation, hes got us fighting for 4th, we ain't a million miles away.

And you only have to watch his face on the touchline to know he is NOT ok with how we are playing.
 

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