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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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blueblue said:
That will be true in time but at the moment the overwhelming majority of supporters would take 38 games in the league where the result was 1-0to Everton.
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Well, I understand that, but the football we play has not led us to trophies or the top four. We are now fighting for a place in Europe, and it can be difficult to achieve that.

My hypothesis is that an average manager could have led Everton to about the same position as today with a completely different type of football with today's squad. I do not undermine Ancelotti's achievement, but I do not want to exaggerate it either. Koeman can actually win La liga with Barcelona, and that with one of the worse versions of a Barcelona team.

An average manager performs as expected, based on financial conditions, while a very good manager performs better than expected. Managers in top clubs should preferably win trophies, but they should also have an entertaining style of play, and be at the forefront when it comes to the development of the game.

Many people point to injury problems to explain some of our problems, and it is obvious that it has an impact. However, and as mentioned in another thread, it was not entirely surprising that these players were injured. Player logistics is the responsibility of Ancelotti and Brands.

I also understand the idea of first building a defensive foundation, but at some point we have to focus on other phases of the game. Here I see no development. There is no crisis, and it is possible this will get better next season. However, we must be honest enough to say that Everton's style of play this season has been disappointing, and one should perhaps expect more from Ancelotti.
 
blueblue said:
Carlo has been at Everton for about seventeen months now. He has had one summer transfer window.
If that is the timescale for achieving success then Fergus on, Wenger and Kopp would have been in trouble.
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That's because Liverpool Arsenal and United have different interpretations of success, they dont see moving past midtable mediocrity as success, besides i dont recall them taking 2 points from 21 against some of the leagues worst teams at home.
 
Egil Olsen said:
Well, I understand that, but the football we play has not led us to trophies or the top four. We are now fighting for a place in Europe, and it can be difficult to achieve that.

My hypothesis is that an average manager could have led Everton to about the same position as today with a completely different type of football with today's squad. I do not undermine Ancelotti's achievement, but I do not want to exaggerate it either. Koeman can actually win La liga with Barcelona, and that with one of the worse versions of a Barcelona team.

An average manager performs as expected, based on financial conditions, while a very good manager performs better than expected. Managers in top clubs should preferably win trophies, but they should also have an entertaining style of play, and be at the forefront when it comes to the development of the game.

Many people point to injury problems to explain some of our problems, and it is obvious that it has an impact. However, and as mentioned in another thread, it was not entirely surprising that these players were injured. Player logistics is the responsibility of Ancelotti and Brands.

I also understand the idea of first building a defensive foundation, but at some point we have to focus on other phases of the game. Here I see no development. There is no crisis, and it is possible this will get better next season. However, we must be honest enough to say that Everton's style of play this season has been disappointing, and one should perhaps expect more from Ancelotti.
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The manager has not completed one full season yet....there must be some level of patience.
 

Blue Neon said:
Sincere question ! If he gets another 17 months and two big summer transfer windows and we still don't make top five would your thoughts be the same? How long would you give him?
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I have a feeling Moshiri wouldn't tolerate it if there has been more significant investment.

I might be going out on a limb here, but my gut feeling is that the board will be pushing for Europe league at the minimum next season if we miss out this year.
 
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it is good all u better blues have faith in mr carlo. it is only right that ur fellow blues who are passionate for everton successes continue to question and pull apart all processes because if they do not do that then the same bozos who promise much and deliver nothing will continue to infest the everton like super cockroach. i see two sides arguing like crazies but do not forget there are no two sides u are both on the same side and this is a democracy god damn it where people should feel free to speak minds and be respected even if it is not what other buddies believe. i salute the guys who demand nothing but best for the everton.
 
4737carlin said:
That's because Liverpool Arsenal and United have different interpretations of success, they dont see moving past midtable mediocrity as success, besides i dont recall them taking 2 points from 21 against some of the leagues worst teams at home.
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The point was they were given longer than seventeen months to build a team

When Klopp and Ferguson took over they were not managing teams flirting with relegation.
 
The binman chronicles said:
If anyone thinks we'll do better without Ancelotti then you better check into an institution as you're officially nuts. We're pretty cursed and anyone would have faced these issues and more. And also not brought Allan and James with him as well as being a reason Digne and Richarlison will stick around for longer. Let's see who he entices here in the summer who wouldn't have come in a million years without him.
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Better how though, better by status, based on what someone did for another side? Let's say we stayed 8th this season, if we had of taken a no mark manager and got 7th we would of done better.
Its great getting Carlo, but I want him to do something for us.
 
Egil Olsen said:
I think the biggest problem for Ancelotti is that football is not just about results. Results tend to fade over time. In terms of points, we can not complain, but it depends on expectations. My expectation was top 8. This is what I had expected an average manager to achieve with today's squad. Almost regardless of playing style.

But I also watch football matches to be entertained. This can be anything from Guerdiola style to good old fashioned British football with a lot of duels and tackles. I want some temperature and passion. For me, the biggest problem, apart from some matches, is that we have been completely flat. We are so predictable, and it seems like we just want to finish the matches before they even start.

We meet teams like Newcastle, Burnley, etc., and for some strange reason it looks like they are a mix of Guerdiola's Barcelona and Klopp's Liverpool. We even made Rotherdam look like Brazil in 1986. And all the time I hear the same excuses, Ancelotti does the best he can with the players he has. He needs Maldini, Costacurta, Nesta, Cafu, Gattouso, Seedorf, Prilo, Kaka, Schevchenko, Inzaghi before we can start playing good football. It is to believe in fairy tales that Everton will have such good players in the near future. (Ancelotti's league record with this team is not impressive either, but now I will probably be crucified).

But the point is almost every football manager has to settle for players who do not possess the optimal qualities (apart from the very biggest clubs). The job of the manager is to make the sum bigger than the parts, and mostly, give the fans some excitement and entertainment. Ever since Ancelotti took over the job, we have done well in terms of points, but the development as a team has been largely constant.

Maybe we have to wait until next season, I do not know, but there is nothing to suggest that we are in development when it comes to playing football. Ancelotti has been given quite a long time, at least in the football context, to develop this. But nothing has happened.

Now I do not think we should fire Ancelotti, it's crazy, but one might wonder if this is the way Everton will play football under Ancelotti. Just realizing that Ancelotti is a manager with an ultra defensive attitude when he does not have world stars on the team, a bit like Big Sam, Tony Pulis, only that he appears a little more sophisticated on the outside.
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Excellent post.
 

blueblue said:
The manager has not completed one full season yet....there must be some level of patience.
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Of course. I'm just saying that we have not seen any particular progression in the style of play, but in terms of points we have done as expected. Hopefully we will take further steps next season. The positive thing is that every time I say something critical against Ancelotti, we start winning football matches.
 
blueblue said:
The point was they were given longer than seventeen months to build a team

When Klopp and Ferguson took over they were not managing teams flirting with relegation.
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A comparison with Fergusen I think is irrelevant. A completely different time. In part also Klopp, but that is because Liverpool had a better starting point. But when it comes to Klopp and Liverpool, he always had a rising curve and the game was constantly evolving.

They also used experts and the most up-to-date knowledge in several fields. Among other things, they have their own coach who is responsible for throw-ins. They use data-driven models to identify the right players for their style of play, etc.

I do not feel we are trying to be ahead of our competitors in these areas, and get the small margins that have so much to say at this level. But again, the big test for Ancelotti is next season, and it would be crazy to get rid of him now.
 

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