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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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Jim Hopper said:
The problem we have is nobody is going to pay for our dross. Tosun the crock will be back recovering from his injury, will be hanging around like a bad stench again come October/November time then who’s gonna wanna pay money for him with one year left on his deal? Iwobi nobody gonna pay anything for him, Sigurdsson sounds like he’s getting a new deal, Gomes potentially could be sold, Davies nope, Pickford nope.

If we are on another major sell to buy policy this summer we are pretty much screwed unless we get a big offer for Richy or can move the likes of Holgate or Mina (massive crock so doubtful) on.
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Few contracts up so theyl be gone. Agree we will be stuck with some but majority will be gone
 
John from Bootle said:
He gets three seasons, minimum, for me (so 2 more.)

If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I'm confident he at least won't leave us in a position like Koeman did.

We've got to give him a chance to build a squad and we've also, as a club, got to accept that Carlo is above our level. We're a club, who hasn't got a single proven winner in football within the playing staff or within 'the office.'

Maybe, just maybe, a world class coach, who's won it all at club level, as both a player and manager, is exactly the sort of figure we need to just trust, and say 'here, this club is yours for a good few years, try and turn this mentality around'

Not that you'll need reminding, but, 26 years and counting...
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Fully agreed. There’s a perception that Carlo is buying players for the here and now but when you look at the signings since he arrived.

Branthwaite
Allan
Doucoure
James
Godfrey
Nkonkou
King (loan)

I’d argue that only Allan and James would fall into the short term thinking signings, and even then James was a free signing who can probably play for another three seasons given his style of play.

The rest are very much the signings of a manager who is not thinking of being here for one or two seasons. We need to give him time to turn the squad around and then see what he can do. If he fails then he fails fine, but I don’t want us to sack Carlo Ancelotti just because Davies Siggurdson and Gomes have failed again.
 
Curtis said:
A question I've been pondering is what if instead of Carlo we hired Jose and we found ourselves in the same exact predicament, both have exemplary accolades in the game and have been playing overly conservative to a fault this season, would people be staunchly defending Jose to the same degree as Carlo? Because I believe a lot of people backing Carlo would be pushing for Jose's ouster. I feel carlo's good natured demeanor makes it easier to rally and amass support towards over the distant snideness of Jose.
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A lot of blues didn't even want Mourinho here in the first place.
 

Saint Domingo said:
Fully agreed. There’s a perception that Carlo is buying players for the here and now but when you look at the signings since he arrived.

Branthwaite
Allan
Doucoure
James
Godfrey
Nkonkou
King (loan)

I’d argue that only Allan and James would fall into the short term thinking signings, and even then James was a free signing who can probably play for another three seasons given his style of play.

The rest are very much the signings of a manager who is not thinking of being here for one or two seasons. We need to give him time to turn the squad around and then see what he can do. If he fails then he fails fine, but I don’t want us to sack Carlo Ancelotti just because Davies Siggurdson and Gomes have failed again.
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I think that's a slightly biased way of looking at it. I'm not sure how you can not include King as a short term thinking signing? He's pretty much the definition of it. You missed off Olsen too, who is in the same category. So suddenly we double the number of short term signings. Doucoure is 28. He's not ready for the scrap heap, but he's not exactly here to get better over 3 or 4 years is he? He's at his peak, there are many, many posters on here (you included I think) who said it would be utter madness to turn down £25m for Gana because he was 29 and it was easy money. But Doucoure at 28 is long term thinking? The kids are a different category altogether I think. They're punts, they might come off, they might not. We've always signed players like that, literally every year. I don't think we can say it's part of a strategy, it's just something most clubs do.

I don't think people believe Ancelotti is here for extremely short term thinking (like a boom or bust season where we throw all our eggs in one basket) just that he's not really here as part of a slow evolution where we see the benefits 4/5 years down the line. It has been very clear since his appointment that we were trying to speed up the process of improvement, and if we don't do that then I don't think the appointment has worked. Luckily for us, it might still work. Europe isn't out of the question this season and next season is a fresh start where he'll have every opportunity to achieve his targets.
 
Lanolin said:
I think that's a slightly biased way of looking at it. I'm not sure how you can not include King as a short term thinking signing? He's pretty much the definition of it. You missed off Olsen too, who is in the same category. So suddenly we double the number of short term signings. Doucoure is 28. He's not ready for the scrap heap, but he's not exactly here to get better over 3 or 4 years is he? He's at his peak, there are many, many posters on here (you included I think) who said it would be utter madness to turn down £25m for Gana because he was 29 and it was easy money. But Doucoure at 28 is long term thinking? The kids are a different category altogether I think. They're punts, they might come off, they might not. We've always signed players like that, literally every year. I don't think we can say it's part of a strategy, it's just something most clubs do.

I don't think people believe Ancelotti is here for extremely short term thinking (like a boom or bust season where we throw all our eggs in one basket) just that he's not really here as part of a slow evolution where we see the benefits 4/5 years down the line. It has been very clear since his appointment that we were trying to speed up the process of improvement, and if we don't do that then I don't think the appointment has worked. Luckily for us, it might still work. Europe isn't out of the question this season and next season is a fresh start where he'll have every opportunity to achieve his targets.
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The second paragraph is fair enough, I just think the club, and Ancelotti, see him being here for a long time. If it was win or bust for him I don’t think he buys half those players, I don’t think he’s spending 20 mill on a player in Godfrey who might not have even been in his starting 11 at the start of the season. If there’s a perception that if he misses Europe this season there’ll be pressure on him it’s just my opinion that I don’t think that’s the case. I think Moshiri has seen poor recruitment and assets depreciating for years and now he has a manager who whilst not everything has gone well, is getting the best out of most of the players he has (whether they’re good enough or not is another question).

I don’t think there was some massively joined up recruitment plan last summer, rather Ancelotti filling glaring gaps so that we could at least improve a bit. I just don’t buy that because we bought Allan and James it’s all about us winning quickly. In an ideal world yes but I think Everton and Ancelotti are looking at a long term project for the club moving into the new stadium unless Ancelotti fails completely like Koeman and Silva did and has us in relegation trouble.
 
Terrarian said:
As opposed to turning on Carlo "I have won a few pots" Ancelotti. Come on Dave, It's not pretty agreed but He is the best we have had in a long long time and he needs to be given the chance to get more of his own players in.

History shows he can work with good players so lets get him some, I would like to see that plan of attack before punting the most decorated manager we have ever had.
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I'm not turning on him.

I've already stated he gets the next few months of next season up to Christmas to get things moving in the right direction, style and results-wise.

I'm putting forward the propsition that we need to make our next manager a stylist who plays in a certain way (successfully) in orer to hand us back an identity.

I'm sick of looking at the last few Everton managers coming in and handing us haphazard play and inconsistent performances. We deserve more than just muddling along until the BMD stadium is built. If that's Moshiri's game, it wont work.
 
Saint Domingo said:
Fully agreed. There’s a perception that Carlo is buying players for the here and now but when you look at the signings since he arrived.

Branthwaite
Allan
Doucoure
James
Godfrey
Nkonkou
King (loan)

I’d argue that only Allan and James would fall into the short term thinking signings, and even then James was a free signing who can probably play for another three seasons given his style of play.

The rest are very much the signings of a manager who is not thinking of being here for one or two seasons. We need to give him time to turn the squad around and then see what he can do. If he fails then he fails fine, but I don’t want us to sack Carlo Ancelotti just because Davies Siggurdson and Gomes have failed again.
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That's a pretty good summation of the situation
 

Jebus_lives said:
You said the Olympics is a tough tournament. It's tough in the same way any tournament is, but it is not tough in terms of the quality you might expect. It's basically an U23s tournament.

To illustrate the point you quoted Messi saying it was his most valued achievement (it's not; avoiding jail for tax evasion was).

I made up a quote from Marvin Sordell which you've taken far too seriously, and implied that it was highly valued outside the UK (is it?).
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TBF, that's piss poor.

I expected a better response...maybe a hands up saying you realise where you went wrong.

Never mind. Let's move on.
 
Saint Domingo said:
The second paragraph is fair enough, I just think the club, and Ancelotti, see him being here for a long time. If it was win or bust for him I don’t think he buys half those players, I don’t think he’s spending 20 mill on a player in Godfrey who might not have even been in his starting 11 at the start of the season. If there’s a perception that if he misses Europe this season there’ll be pressure on him it’s just my opinion that I don’t think that’s the case. I think Moshiri has seen poor recruitment and assets depreciating for years and now he has a manager who whilst not everything has gone well, is getting the best out of most of the players he has (whether they’re good enough or not is another question).

I don’t think there was some massively joined up recruitment plan last summer, rather Ancelotti filling glaring gaps so that we could at least improve a bit. I just don’t buy that because we bought Allan and James it’s all about us winning quickly. In an ideal world yes but I think Everton and Ancelotti are looking at a long term project for the club moving into the new stadium unless Ancelotti fails completely like Koeman and Silva did and has us in relegation trouble.
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He won't be under pressure if we finish 8th, and nor should he be. It will be a failure, but not a huge one. A bit like if Leicester finish 5th, they'll be disappointed but they won't sack Rodgers, there are different levels of failure. It's not just Allan and James for me, it's Ancelotti himself, Olsen, Doucoure, the words people have used. Both Ancelotti and Coleman have gone on record saying we NEED europe. I don't think it's a coincidence that they're saying need rather than want/like/would be nice/aiming etc. I think Europe was the target this year and Moshiri will be pretty annoyed if we don't get it, but not so annoyed that he'll consider pulling the plug.
 
davek said:
I'm not turning on him.

I've already stated he gets the next few months of next season up to Christmas to get things moving in the right direction, style and results-wise.

I'm putting forward the propsition that we need to make our next manager a stylist who plays in a certain way (successfully) in orer to hand us back an identity.

I'm sick of looking at the last few Everton managers coming in and handing us haphazard play and inconsistent performances. We deserve more than just muddling along until the BMD stadium is built. If that's Moshiri's game, it wont work.
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This is the roadmap to turning on him. See y'all next Christmas!
 

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