2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[Ancelotti]

I seem to remember certain fans being unhappy with clipperty-Klopp during his first season, don’t think they finished too high up the table either. It would be scandalous to get of Ancelotti at the moment.

Terrible comparison. Klopp went in and immediately changed how they played and got them to a domestic and a European final. You could see the progress they were going to make under him almost straight away. Klopp is the opposite of Carlo in that he’s not a pragmatic manager, he wants to play attacking football and doesn’t adapt for the opposition. Sure they had some terrible results but everyone knew he’d deliver the goods there because of what he achieved with Dortmund (in a league which is dominated by Bayern).

Ive seen nothing from our football under Carlo to suggest that things will hugely improve with one or two new signings.

 

[Frenk]

Terrible comparison. Klopp went in and immediately changed how they played and got them to a domestic and a European final. You could see the progress they were going to make under him almost straight away. Klopp is the opposite of Carlo in that he’s not a pragmatic manager, he wants to play attacking football and doesn’t adapt for the opposition. Sure they had some terrible results but everyone knew he’d deliver the goods there because of what he achieved with Dortmund (in a league which is dominated by Bayern).

Ive seen nothing from our football under Carlo to suggest that things will hugely improve with one or two new signings.

I don’t think it is, I think it highlights precisely how far Everton have fallen. We are desperately trying to jump up the ladder to get back that success, blowing a fortune and sacking managers left right and center along the way. To me that sets off alarm bells, showing that the managers are not the only problem, it’s also heavily attributed to other stuff going on at the club, like recruitment, coaching, and possibly the boardroom.
I’ve seen nothing from the last few managers to make me feel like things are improving in all honesty, and that includes the better Moyes years. Maybe that’s because I got to see us during our glory days.

 

[Nymzee]

Terrible comparison. Klopp went in and immediately changed how they played and got them to a domestic and a European final. You could see the progress they were going to make under him almost straight away. Klopp is the opposite of Carlo in that he’s not a pragmatic manager, he wants to play attacking football and doesn’t adapt for the opposition. Sure they had some terrible results but everyone knew he’d deliver the goods there because of what he achieved with Dortmund (in a league which is dominated by Bayern).

Ive seen nothing from our football under Carlo to suggest that things will hugely improve with one or two new signings.

Changed your tune fast.

Some of the comments here about Carlo are ridiculous. He’s the best manager we’ve had for decades.

Wind yer necks in.

 

[riddick]

Your problem, which is the same problem we ALL have is that Carlo doesn't play the side YOU want.

TomTom has improved massively this season, but for me, Gomes and Iceberg, at their best, are still vastly better players.

Earlier on in the season everybody said Holgate was our best CB, now people want him sold to League Two.

Carlo isn't as reactive as us fans, he looks at things differently.

He picks the side he thinks can get a result, the margins between defeat and victory are so fine most of the time.

So people rage when he plays Gomes, people rage when their golden boy Mina doesn't play, people rage when Iwobi starts, despite Bernie being no better.

As I say, he picks a side he thinks can win, if he was to drop every player that has let us down this season, there wouldn't be many left.

I mean look at Pickford, everybody wanted him sold in January, but he's been very, very good for a while now, Carlo takes away emotion, he sees them in training all week, he knows whos on it and who isn't.

Im not saying he doesn't make "mistakes", but I do realise why he keeps playing players that some of us don't want to ever play for us again.

Well that's the caveat is it not? "At their best" sure. But they have stretches of a massive amount of games where they are well below substandard and, inexplicably, they're still chosen. You seem to be conflating me saying "Davies should be playing when these 2 are crap week after week" with "I want Davies to play". I don't WANT Davies to play but he's shown to be serviceable when others are very much not.

If Carlo is coming out about 10 times this season and said the spirit and effort wasn't there nothing matters unless HE changes something. It's the same issue I had with Phil fn Neville, I don't care in the slightest what he may be showing in training, if he is performing terribly in matches it's a moot point. Carlo calling out desire and effort whole continuing to play the ones who exude a lack of desire and effort makes his comments ring hollow and it just uttering platitudes.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Your problem, which is the same problem we ALL have is that Carlo doesn't play the side YOU want.

TomTom has improved massively this season, but for me, Gomes and Iceberg, at their best, are still vastly better players.

Earlier on in the season everybody said Holgate was our best CB, now people want him sold to League Two.

Carlo isn't as reactive as us fans, he looks at things differently.

He picks the side he thinks can get a result, the margins between defeat and victory are so fine most of the time.

So people rage when he plays Gomes, people rage when their golden boy Mina doesn't play, people rage when Iwobi starts, despite Bernie being no better.

As I say, he picks a side he thinks can win, if he was to drop every player that has let us down this season, there wouldn't be many left.

I mean look at Pickford, everybody wanted him sold in January, but he's been very, very good for a while now, Carlo takes away emotion, he sees them in training all week, he knows whos on it and who isn't.

Im not saying he doesn't make "mistakes", but I do realise why he keeps playing players that some of us don't want to ever play for us again.

Two things: I can't think of a single PL player I'd say Sigurdsson is vastly better than and I can't believe we're going to now say Pickford is very good because he's improved on being complete and utter garbage. He's average now and I'll take that but don't get it twisted.

 

[Moonlight dribbler]

Well that's the caveat is it not? "At their best" sure. But they have stretches of a massive amount of games where they are well below substandard and, inexplicably, they're still chosen. You seem to be conflating me saying "Davies should be playing when these 2 are crap week after week" with "I want Davies to play". I don't WANT Davies to play but he's shown to be serviceable when others are very much not.

If Carlo is coming out about 10 times this season and said the spirit and effort wasn't there nothing matters unless HE changes something. It's the same issue I had with Phil fn Neville, I don't care in the slightest what he may be showing in training, if he is performing terribly in matches it's a moot point. Carlo calling out desire and effort whole continuing to play the ones who exude a lack of desire and effort makes his comments ring hollow and it just uttering platitudes.

Most of the squad is mid table mediocrity. Pickford - Keane - Davies - King - Siggurdsson - Holgate - Coleman - Gomes all mid table at best. Then a load more bottom half standard with maybe 2 or 3 players top 6 at their best.

 

[billyblue80]

I wouldn't get rid of Ancelotti in a million years but if im honest im not sure much would change either way if we did. The fact we've had all these managers but always slip into mediocrity tells me they don't make much difference to our fortunes. Some things are set in stone, Everton being Everton is one of them.

It's the mindset of the club. At least when Moyes was here we laid foundations of a good team and built. Since our recruitment has been scatter gun and we haven't got the basics in place before we get fancy players who look the part but don't make the difference. We need to give Carlo the time if we keep hiring and firing we will carry on going in circles. We might anyway as there isn't that demand for success at the club from the top down but at least it gives us a chance.

 

[TheBigIguana]

We still have something to play for in May so that has made it better than quite a few recent seasons.

We convinced ourselves we were fighting for Europe in May 2019 too. It's been one year in between.

 

[Gilbert..]

Terrible comparison. Klopp went in and immediately changed how they played and got them to a domestic and a European final. You could see the progress they were going to make under him almost straight away. Klopp is the opposite of Carlo in that he’s not a pragmatic manager, he wants to play attacking football and doesn’t adapt for the opposition. Sure they had some terrible results but everyone knew he’d deliver the goods there because of what he achieved with Dortmund (in a league which is dominated by Bayern).

Ive seen nothing from our football under Carlo to suggest that things will hugely improve with one or two new signings.

Thats right. Because we need about 4 or 5. Minimum. That midfield could all do with replacing to be honest but that aint gona happen. But gomes and iwobi are first. Basically carrying two players most games. Sigurdsson is 1 in 5. Richarlison needs to shape up or he needs benching.
If we dont address the above this summer then i cant see the point of next season because nobody and i mean nobody is getting a tune out of these.
Different manager. Exact same problems. God dam awful recruitment of players who have no hunger.

 

[TheBigIguana]

It's the mindset of the club. At least when Moyes was here we laid foundations of a good team and built. Since our recruitment has been scatter gun and we haven't got the basics in place before we get fancy players who look the part but don't make the difference. We need to give Carlo the time if we keep hiring and firing we will carry on going in circles. We might anyway as there isn't that demand for success at the club from the top down but at least it gives us a chance.

I'm still not sure Carlo wants to lay the foundations though. I know he has said he's here for the long haul but when you go out spending most of your resources on players who are not long haul pieces you build around it is hard to fully buy that. Further when you're treating each week like a must win game and not trying to build performances and systems of playing it looks even more like you're just trying to do what you can in the moment.

So while I agree firing the manager just resets the cycle it also doesn't do anything for you if the manager in place doesn't actually want to participate in the early parts of said cycle.

 

[billyblue80]

I'm still not sure Carlo wants to lay the foundations though. I know he has said he's here for the long haul but when you go out spending most of your resources on players who are not long haul pieces you build around it is hard to fully buy that. Further when you're treating each week like a must win game and not trying to build performances and systems of playing it looks even more like you're just trying to do what you can in the moment.

So while I agree firing the manager just resets the cycle it also doesn't do anything for you if the manager in place doesn't actually want to participate in the early parts of said cycle.

Don't disagree to an extent. The strategy speaks to both the here and now and some players bought for the future if you look at recruitment. But your point also speaks If you bring a manager like Carlo in you have to give him the tools otherwise it's pointless and we may as well gone for another young building type manager. The point is though we have a mish mash of a squad, that maybe he thinks isn't actual capable and that whatever manager we have, until one manager gets the time to bring an entire team in we will just go in circles.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Don't disagree to an extent. The strategy speaks to both the here and now and some players bought for the future if you look at recruitment. But your point also speaks If you bring a manager like Carlo in you have to give him the tools otherwise it's pointless and we may as well gone for another young building type manager. The point is though we have a mish mash of a squad, that whatever manager we have, until one manager gets the time to bring an entire team in we will just go in circles.

The question is what tools does he need? Because he isn't getting a squad as good as the one he had at Napoli, much less those he had at Milan or Chelsea or Madrid, any time soon. So if that's what he needs it may never happen here.

 

[Gilbert..]

Most of the squad is mid table mediocrity. Pickford - Keane - Davies - King - Siggurdsson - Holgate - Coleman - Gomes all mid table at best. Then a load more bottom half standard with maybe 2 or 3 players top 6 at their best.

Pickford has started to mature a bit. Thought he was an essential move on and replace but he's looking a slightly different keeper. Possibly to quick to judge fully but from what ive seen lately we need to plough money into that midfield and get rid of those wasters who offer virtualy nothing.

 

[billyblue80]

The question is what tools does he need? Because he isn't getting a squad as good as the one he had at Napoli, much less those he had at Milan or Chelsea or Madrid, any time soon. So if that's what he needs it may never happen here.

Quality and balance, I don't believe we have either you may be right but bringing him here they must have promised him quality. We shall see I think this season is a weird one in some ways he has won us points (away)in others he has lost us with the players and decisions and yes it's hard to identify a philosophy. Away we play basic football and look to counter attack the set of players we have can carry that out what they can't do is break down teams or build possession and pressure at home. Where does the fault lie players or manager? Probably both.

But that's given the lack of a preseason, injuries, contracted schedule, no fans. It's a hard season to gage. I think if he gets the players he wants this window, next season there are no excuses for a results manager we need to see progress at the least.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Quality and balance, I don't believe we have either you may be right but bringing him here they must have promised him quality. We shall see I think this season is a weird one in some ways he has won us points in others it's hard to identify a philosophy. But that's given the lack of a preseason, injuries, contracted schedule, no fans. It's a hard season to gage. I think if he gets the players he wants this window, next season there are no excuses for a results manager.

The problem is we can try to buy quality and we might find some, we did get James and Allan is decent enough too, but if you have to fill it out with guys like Doucoure or Godfrey, who might be great yet but isn't now, you aren't getting where he needs to go. So the question for me is what is he going to do to fill the quality gaps so to speak?