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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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Lanolin said:
I've made the same point many times, in many different contexts, over many seasons. The amount of points you achieve in any given season is only relevant in that season. Gaining more points when the teams you're playing is different cannot be used as indisputable evidence of progress. There are 3 teams in the league this year who look unlikely to reach 30 points. Because they aren't picking up points, it means the average points total for teams in the top half is going to be higher, because everybody is taking points off them, which isn't always the case. If you took City, United and Chelsea out of the league next year and replaced them with Tranmere, Wrexham and Stockport we'd get more points, but we wouldn't necessarily be any better as a team. So I think, and I might be sticking my neck out here, i'm not too sure, but I think, your point is rubbish.
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Mate you attacked blulouie for a single caveat and now you are here dogpilling me with 1000 caveats. No need to have ifs and buts. But but these teams took points off these teams and if man u was tranmere. Yes every season is different dont get me wrong. But you could say that about anything with season by season caveats. They only won the cause the league fell this way. You could flip it say we are very unfortunate to finish so low on that many points. In such a competitive league this season.

We have gotten more points than 6 seasons passed and could do better with 3 games to go. You can twist it an say its freak of chance based in the season it is. To suit an agenda

I think based on that many seasons. Not 1 or 2 but 6 or 7. Prior its a sign of progress. And I think, bare with me here, the point is relevant.
 
Death said:
Mate you attacked blulouie for a single caveat and now you are here dogpilling me with 1000 caveats. No need to have ifs and buts. But but these teams took points off these teams and if man u was tranmere. Yes every season is different dont get me wrong. But you could say that about anything with season by season caveats. They only won the cause the league fell this way. You could flip it say we are very unfortunate to finish so low on that many points. In such a competitive league this season.

We have gotten more points than 6 seasons passed and could do better with 3 games to go. You can twist it an say its freak of chance based in the season it is. To suit an agenda

I think based on that many seasons. Not 1 or 2 but 6 or 7. Prior its a sign of progress. And I think, bare with me here, the point is relevant.
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There are literally no caveats in my post?! I'm just saying the league table is how you measure performance, not how many points you got 7 years ago. It's a pretty simple concept.

I also didn't 'attack' anyone, I just said I didn't understand why we needed to put a caveat in for the season we got more points but not for the seasons we got less. He was trying to put a spin on things, which is fine, but I was just pointing it out.
 
Lanolin said:
Well the obvious one would be where you finish in the table wouldn't it? That's my point in a nutshell, that your performance relative to your peers would be the go to methodology for this 99.9% of the time, because that's what allows you to evaluate the performance within the season itself, when everybody's playing the same teams under the same conditions. You've even mentioned it there yourself as an aside to try to further your point, despite the fact you're pretending it doesn't exist in the context we're talking about. The only reason it isn't being used here is because it wouldn't show what the poster wanted it to show, so they chose a different method.

As i've said elsewhere, I'm not saying we haven't improved, I just don't think it's clear cut. There's still a chance we could finish 6th, in which case I'll be saying good job everyone, can't knock that. There's also a chance we'll finish 9th, in which case I'll be saying that's a poor return, actually even lower than my minimum expectation would have been at the start of the season.
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Well no, cos you're basing it on how the league as a whole performs rather than an individual team.

68-70 points generally gets you a top 4 finish. Has been the case for the past decade. Anomalies end up being when we or Spurs hit 72 points and dont get a 4th spot, finishing 5th. That shows a more competitive top half of the table. Does the league position dictate progress there or points?

If you're a team that consistently gets 60 points a season, league position sorts itself out. The idea is to gain points season on season to show progress in my eyes, not league positions cos that's out of your hands how the league dictates itself over a season.

The basic view is league position IMO. If it were, we'd all say Big Sam did the same job than Carlo if we finish 8th this season even if he finishes on more points
 
Death said:
I think, and I might be sticking my neck out here, im not too sure. But I think its a barometer of having better results than previous seasons.

Don't hold me to that.

And yeah I agree the 61 point season that we very well may overtake doesn't need the Lukaku caveat.

The point stands without it.
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The caveat was meant to show how a striker bang in form can mask a pretty poor season with a very limited squad.

But ok point is already made with the stats.
 

John from Bootle said:
It's mad init.

I remember somebody on here having a go at Chris Woods' coaching skills once. lol

And Steve Round was regularly, err, rounded on, despite the fact nobody on here knew anything about how he went about his job
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Dennis Lawrence getting stick for our poor defence under Martinez when he wasn't our defensive coach was a particular high point.
 
Brisan123 said:
Who would you have put on instead of Iwobi
I think Iwobi is dreadful but who else is there
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I think the first sub should have been Davies for Holgate at half time (I would have started Davies over Holgate personally), the second would have been Iwobi for Sigurdsson to keep him central and then I'd have thrown Bernard or King on for Allan if we were still 0-0. I've said many times since yesterday that I know they are not good options, but I would have no complaints if he done those things because it would have appeared like we actually tried to win.

I couldn't care less about drawing that game yesterday, the result does absolutely nothing for us. I think we had to gamble everything to win, even at the expense of getting stung on the break. If that game was in the middle of the season then sure, 0-0 isn't the end of the world and you don't take crazy risks. We didn't seriously try and win the game until the last 10 minutes. That is my biggest frustration.
 
Daveysgingerlovechild said:
I've got the point now where I'd like for GOT to lobby the club for a competition.

One lucky forum poster gets to manage Everton FC for a Premier league game. Training, tactics, pre-match meal, team selection, the lot.

Imagine. That 2-5-3 formation with the line up below will bring back the school of science:

Pickford

Godfrey Mina

Iwobi Davies Doucs Allan Bernard

James Dom King

Counter pressing style, fast transitions, and cute 1-2s all over the shop. They'll be sergeant majored into caring about this club, make no mistake.



Thoughts?
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Imagine going around the players telling them what to do and how to play , giving them detailed instructions ...............and then you get to James lol
 

We still have opportunities to qualify for the Europa League, and that's good. I think we also have good opportunities, but on the other hand we can end up in 9th place. It has been a strange season in many ways. So whether the season will be good or bad depends on the next matches.

However, the football we play is worrying. It is perfectly fine that very few people care about the aesthetic when you are successful - especially in the beginning. But define success? Globally, 7-8 places are not a success, and if you also play a fairly predictable and boring football, you will not be able to attract more supporters.

You could say it's insignificant, but as a club fighting for potential sponsors and supporters in a global market, it matters a lot. The younger generation will find it unattractive to become fans of Everton with this type of football. Then you choose instead the biggest clubs, and at the same time play the most entertaining football. If you are a football nerd, it is more exciting to follow clubs such as Atalanta, Sassuolo, Brighton, Unioen Berlin, Leipzig, etc. which all have a solid identity.

All this has an impact on whether Everton will have success in the future. Supporters are money, and many supporters give better sponsorship deals. The younger generation, or in general, have a shorter attention span in today's society, and have much greater access to be entertained. The market for supporters who are entertained by good defensive play, and teams that take little risk in their play is very small.

This is something Ancelotti must fix for next season - as long as he does not take Everton to the top 4 - something that is not enough globally either. Football is, of course, performance-driven, but it is also an aesthetic game. Personally, I miss the duels and tackles that were in the 90's, and the aggressiveness. Now you can no longer tackle without getting a yellow card, and players have the freedom to roll around on the ground as they have been shot. Regardless, for a club that wants to fight both sportingly and financially with the biggest clubs, one must have both results and the aesthetic.
 
kenada_blue said:
Well no, cos you're basing it on how the league as a whole performs rather than an individual team.

68-70 points generally gets you a top 4 finish. Has been the case for the past decade. Anomalies end up being when we or Spurs hit 72 points and dont get a 4th spot, finishing 5th. That shows a more competitive top half of the table. Does the league position dictate progress there or points?

If you're a team that consistently gets 60 points a season, league position sorts itself out. The idea is to gain points season on season to show progress in my eyes, not league positions cos that's out of your hands how the league dictates itself over a season.

The basic view is league position IMO. If it were, we'd all say Big Sam did the same job than Carlo if we finish 8th this season even if he finishes on more points
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At the risk of just repeating myself, where you finish in the league is what defines the season. You could theoretically improve your points total every season but gradually slip down the league. Trying to argue that this would be evidence of progress is... ambitious.
 
Lanolin said:
At the risk of just repeating myself, where you finish in the league is what defines the season. You could theoretically improve your points total every season but gradually slip down the league. Trying to argue that this would be evidence of progress is... ambitious.
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So if we finish next season on 59 points and 6th compared to 62 and 8th you'd say that was progressing?

Especially when 70 points gets you top 4
 

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