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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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Lanolin said:
The question is how much of that is down to the set up though isn't it. I mean yes, there's no argument that under him, when we've tried to play an open game we've looked hopeless, but that isn't necessarily evidence that we can't possibly do it. Many of the same players did manage to play on the front foot under Silva for example. I appreciate that this means the hard of thinking will say I think Silva was a better manager, but hopefully you're not one of those.
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Lanolin said:
The question is how much of that is down to the set up though isn't it. I mean yes, there's no argument that under him, when we've tried to play an open game we've looked hopeless, but that isn't necessarily evidence that we can't possibly do it. Many of the same players did manage to play on the front foot under Silva for example. I appreciate that this means the hard of thinking will say I think Silva was a better manager, but hopefully you're not one of those.
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It's also worth asking, how much is it the responsibility to make us better. That is partially the job of a coach to improve those things. I think everyone accepts it will take time, and in honesty the improvements in results and ruthlessness (you could call it game management or whatever) has got Ancelotti time, which overall most would say he deserves.

The question is going to be, how long does he get to make those changes/improvements? And how much more blood can squeeze from the stone of just being more clinical as a team.

My own view, is we can get int the top 6, and maybe the top 4 by squeezing the last few drops from what we are doing. But anything much after that will require a change of style, and if we want to be more consistent top 4 finishers it will need a bit more than what we are doing.

The key question is going to be, how far will adding another 3-4 starters each summer help that?

It's quite a nuanced discussion really.
 

catcherintherye said:
It's also worth asking, how much is it the responsibility to make us better. That is partially the job of a coach to improve those things. I think everyone accepts it will take time, and in honesty the improvements in results and ruthlessness (you could call it game management or whatever) has got Ancelotti time, which overall most would say he deserves.

The question is going to be, how long does he get to make those changes/improvements? And how much more blood can squeeze from the stone of just being more clinical as a team.

My own view, is we can get int the top 6, and maybe the top 4 by squeezing the last few drops from what we are doing. But anything much after that will require a change of style, and if we want to be more consistent top 4 finishers it will need a bit more than what we are doing.

The key question is going to be, how far will adding another 3-4 starters each summer help that?

It's quite a nuanced discussion really.
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Yeah I think that's where a lot of the debate stems from really. I've said before, if we play this way and sneak into Europe than I will - grudgingly - accept it as a means to an end and say OK it wasn't pretty but it was effective, now we push on from here. If we don't make Europe then it just feels like we've wasted time playing attritional football and not implementing a style of play that we can use as a template. I don't see this style of play - such as it is - being sustainable for many reasons, not least because the Goodison crowd will absolutely hate it and when Goodison is toxic we know full well that the players will wilt.
 
Daveysgingerlovechild said:
Interesting. Most seasons we've taken at least one severe beating going back to Moyes.

Back to basics for Carlo, I guess. Stay in the game, compete.

Problem is, everyone hates it.
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The more sensible and pragmatic amongst us, can see that he knows, that due to injuries and a very limited squad, he has no choice other than to play this way - for the moment.

It ain’t pretty, but currently a necessity.
 
Lanolin said:
Yeah I think that's where a lot of the debate stems from really. I've said before, if we play this way and sneak into Europe than I will - grudgingly - accept it as a means to an end and say OK it wasn't pretty but it was effective, now we push on from here. If we don't make Europe then it just feels like we've wasted time playing attritional football and not implementing a style of play that we can use as a template. I don't see this style of play - such as it is - being sustainable for many reasons, not least because the Goodison crowd will absolutely hate it and when Goodison is toxic we know full well that the players will wilt.
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Yes all very fair. The positive in as far as there is one, is away from home the sturcture and approach works very well. But we will need a different plan for home games.

If he gets more of the sorts of players he wants (say Coutinho, Koulibaly, maybe Bale) I am not sure there will be as much patience with the approch we have. He may rightly say, that he needs either James or Coutinh playing most games, as they are a big upgrade. It will be interesting to see.
 

Lanolin said:
That's a pretty reductive argument, so evidently I gave you too much credit. Obviously they couldn't do it every week, I never remotely suggested that. I'm saying it's not like it's something they're totally incapable of doing. We've won 4 games this season by more than a single goal - and only 1 of those this calendar year - compared to 10 games in Silva's first season. The point is that they are capable of opening up a bit more if given licence to do so, but we haven't really given them that licence.
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Its a very bizare comparison though. You very quickly nailed your point about the contrast in two managers. But then proceeded to suggest these players were better, or if not better then more expressive, under silva. But then marco silva had the worst points ratio since walter smith at Everton. So whats the point in them having all that licence if its not producing end results? You cant just skirt over we were sitting in the relegation zone and then say but hey they were more expressive under him than ancelloti.
I got your point. We'll swerve the you're not on my level arrogance. Marco silva might not just be the best case for your defence.
 
What perplexes me are the people who defend Carlo by asserting the squad is a bunch of duds and we should be thankful at where we're at, that also back brands who played a role in creating the massively deficient squad. Yes he was left with a squad of misfits but it's been three years and he's contributed to the irregular pile. I feel for carlo to thrive he can't pick some of his old players and hope for the best. This summer he needs to work with brands and find players who are compatible for a unified vision of what he envisions for his style of football. Which till now has been ultra pragmatism
 

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