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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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BlueToff said:
I think, and factoring all the reasons you list, that most of us understand it and accept it in general because we are decent at it. There's nothing wrong with being conservative and it has worked, to an extent, when we need to be.

The issue has come when we've had to be slightly more expansive, or when being conservative just hasn't been enough. But it's been an issue that's been here for a good while and has shown no sign of improvement.

The worry for me is, I don't think that's all on the players. A large chunk definitely is, but there's no attacking structure to fall back on, and that to me is a bit of a worry.
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The only way we are going to find out is if and when reinforcements come in and we see what happens on the pitch.

Proof of the pudding is in the eating. Otherwise, it's all speculation.

Only time will tell. As I said in an earlier post, I don't think we'll see revolution, more evolution.
 
Lanolin said:
That's a pretty reductive argument, so evidently I gave you too much credit. Obviously they couldn't do it every week, I never remotely suggested that. I'm saying it's not like it's something they're totally incapable of doing. We've won 4 games this season by more than a single goal - and only 1 of those this calendar year - compared to 10 games in Silva's first season. The point is that they are capable of opening up a bit more if given licence to do so, but we haven't really given them that licence.
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Our goal difference is far worse than the teams above us to the point that 8th or 9th mid table is about right and we'd be lucky to get Europe on performances. We've really ground wins out and been hanging on and rarely won comfortably. That's a good quality but you can't do it every week. We've won many games with less possession, less shots, less XG etc.

Our home record can be partly excused by empty grounds but our great away record is also down to that. Sitting back and playing on the counter has worked in that setting.
 
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gazzaa2 said:
Our goal difference is far worse than the teams above us to the point that 8th or 9th mid table is about right and we'd be lucky to get Europe on performances. We've really ground wins out and been hanging on and rarely won comfortably. That's a good quality but you can't do it every week. We've won many games with less possession, less shots, less XG etc.

Our home record can be partly excused by empty grounds but our great away record is also down to that. Sitting back and playing on the counter has worked in that setting.
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I think not but rather poor play.
 
Guys, just remember Carlo is our manager and great as he is, it's going to take him more than 18 months to drive out this attitude of failure we've had for the last 20+ years.

It's going to be slow, we're all going to fume, but he is the man to give us back a winning mentality.

We all want to see great players and flowing football,but the attitude has to be sorted first.
 
Daveysgingerlovechild said:
The fact they continually play in the Premier league indicates they are, in fact, Premier league players.
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Two ways to think about it:

1) If they stay up, the players (at least most of them) belong.
2) The manager is making decisions which cause a squad of largely non-Prem-standard players to stay in the Prem.

It's hard to say which until Dyche leaves, and even then we can only say something with confidence about the squad at the time.
 

MisterJ said:
Guys, just remember Carlo is our manager and great as he is, it's going to take him more than 18 months to drive out this attitude of failure we've had for the last 20+ years.

It's going to be slow, we're all going to fume, but he is the man to give us back a winning mentality.

We all want to see great players and flowing football,but the attitude has to be sorted first.
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No mate, he should have got Davies Siggurdson Gomes and Coleman playing front foot attacking football to challenge the top 4 straight away. If not then we may as well have kept Allardyce. Please stay with the agenda.
 
Martin Alvito said:
Two ways to think about it:

1) If they stay up, the players (at least most of them) belong.
2) The manager is making decisions which cause a squad of largely non-Prem-standard players to stay in the Prem.

It's hard to say which until Dyche leaves, and even then we can only say something with confidence about the squad at the time.
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Yeah, of course.

They might only suit a certain style of play, but can operate at the requisite level to get results in the prem doing so.

If they got, say Martinez, who went full tika-taka you might see a different result.

However, this opens a sub debate - how do you define a Premier league player? Do they HAVE to be able to play Pep-ball? Or are other attributes, enough for respectable performance / survival / results just as valuable?

As we know, one of the beautiful things about football is there is no one way of winning or doing things.
 

MisterJ said:
Guys, just remember Carlo is our manager and great as he is, it's going to take him more than 18 months to drive out this attitude of failure we've had for the last 20+ years.

It's going to be slow, we're all going to fume, but he is the man to give us back a winning mentality.

We all want to see great players and flowing football,but the attitude has to be sorted first.
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Good Post that, its tough watching some of the boring togger at the moment but if Carlo Ancelotti can't change a teams mentality to succeed... I worry who would. Stick with this manager enable him to build his side and see where we are in 2 seasons more. What have we got to loose really. Patience has to be key.
 
Toffeelover said:
I think not but rather poor play.
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Yes, but a Goodison crowd would not have stood for the standoffish, passive performances against the dross of Fulham, Newcastle and Burnley (among others) who played us off the park.

This is where the "we haven't got the players to play any differently" falls down. Against the big teams, sure, but not home games against dross.
 
gazzaa2 said:
Yes, but a Goodison crowd would not have stood for the standoffish, passive performances against the dross of Fulham, Newcastle and Burnley (among others) who played us off the park.

This is where the "we haven't got the players to play any differently" falls down. Against the big teams, sure, but not home games against dross.
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Yeah, I dont agree, when things are going wrong, Goodison is toxic.

Goodison shines when the fans get behind the team.
 
MisterJ said:
Guys, just remember Carlo is our manager and great as he is, it's going to take him more than 18 months to drive out this attitude of failure we've had for the last 20+ years.

It's going to be slow, we're all going to fume, but he is the man to give us back a winning mentality.

We all want to see great players and flowing football,but the attitude has to be sorted first.
Click to expand...

This. We've been stagnant for so long that i still find it incredible that some may have thought oh its carlo ancelloti. He'll have this done and dusted within a year.
The fact we were still in with a sniff of Champions league qualification by april is remarkable to me personaly as i dont see the quality to merit it. It hasn't been pretty but then i've been watching a lot of this mob for the past few years so who the hell was expecting them to be pretty. Was even on here yesterday exchanging views with some fella who was telling me they were great under marco silva. News to me that one.
The next transfer window is the one i always thought would be the telling one. Id like more but a realistic target could be 3/4 new signings. Which in turn could push 3/4 frauds out.
I genuinely thought when he took over 3 years to start turning it. Never ever a quick fix this one.
 

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