2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[MikeH72]

with Villa losing to Palace we have now secured a top half finish, which, granted, was the very least of our expectations this season

Top 8 is the bare minimum expectation. Finishing below that is not at all good enough.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Ancelotti is not a manager who favors ball possession, but who likes his teams to be more direct. Of course there are nuances here, but even in Real Madrid he favored a more direct style. They played counter-football, which he was eventually criticized for. So I can hardly imagine him starting to implement it at Everton.

I will not criticize Ancelotti for the results. Considering the injury situation, we have taken a lot of points, which I agree with you. But I think we have also been extremely lucky with the results. What I am more skeptical of, and here I hope I am wrong, is that with this type of football we have reached the ceiling. With this type of football, we have not laid any foundation that we can develop further next season. In many ways, we have sacrificed long-term success for short-term "success". The same can be said about player logistics.

This is where I think Leicester have done a lot right. They have acknowledged that they can not compete with the big clubs financially, and must therefore have a completely different model. They have a clear football philosophy, and allow players to develop within this framework. They have a clear and distinct player logistics, and buy players who are mostly in the right age group, develop them, and sell them expensively.

Since they have a manger with a clear football philosophy, they also know what types of players they want and how they can use them and develop them. If, for example, we had brought a similar player like Tielemans (who was not such a good football player in Monaco) to today's Everton, do you think he would have been a success?

Tielemans was always a hot prospect in Europe, hence why he cost them 40 mill to buy (which would be up there with our record signing). I think he’d be miles above anything we have in midfield regardless of how we were playing.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the Carlo philosophy bit. I think we could have played absolute safety first percentage football (like we did under Silva and Koeman) and we wouldn’t have seen errors like Davies v Burnley or Holgate v Villa, players giving the ball away whilst trying to build from the back. Siggurdson could have done what he did under Silva and just float forward hoping for a knock down or a cross. That football gets you nowhere but covers limitations. Even if it’s on the. Punter attack, Carlo’s football on the deck is riskier and harder to do. I think when we get some better players in we’ll see the value of the work this season.

 

[catcherintherye]

Ancelotti is not a manager who favors ball possession, but who likes his teams to be more direct. Of course there are nuances here, but even in Real Madrid he favored a more direct style. They played counter-football, which he was eventually criticized for. So I can hardly imagine him starting to implement it at Everton.

I will not criticize Ancelotti for the results. Considering the injury situation, we have taken a lot of points, which I agree with you. But I think we have also been extremely lucky with the results. What I am more skeptical of, and here I hope I am wrong, is that with this type of football we have reached the ceiling. With this type of football, we have not laid any foundation that we can develop further next season. In many ways, we have sacrificed long-term success for short-term "success". The same can be said about player logistics.

This is where I think Leicester have done a lot right. They have acknowledged that they can not compete with the big clubs financially, and must therefore have a completely different model. They have a clear football philosophy, and allow players to develop within this framework. They have a clear and distinct player logistics, and buy players who are mostly in the right age group, develop them, and sell them expensively.

Since they have a manger with a clear football philosophy, they also know what types of players they want and how they can use them and develop them. If, for example, we had brought a similar player like Tielemans (who was not such a good football player in Monaco) to today's Everton, do you think he would have been a success?

To play devils advocate here though, you can see the style of football Ancelotti wants us to play. At times though the players he has arent good enough to do it.

Leicester have done very well, but under Ancelotti we have really closed the gap. In Silva's penultimate game here, we were 17th or 18th and they were 2nd, probably running at a point a game head of us. Had United not stuck out a 2nd string against them it's likely we would have closed that gap to 5 points. In fact over the 18 months since he's been here, we areprobably with 6 or 7 points than them. That is a fantastic turnaround however you look at it.

Had we have been a bit more fortunate and like them not suffered many injuries, we could have quite feasibly finished above them this season.

 

[catcherintherye]

Tielemans was always a hot prospect in Europe, hence why he cost them 40 mill to buy (which would be up there with our record signing). I think he’d be miles above anything we have in midfield regardless of how we were playing.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the Carlo philosophy bit. I think we could have played absolute safety first percentage football (like we did under Silva and Koeman) and we wouldn’t have seen errors like Davies v Burnley or Holgate v Villa, players giving the ball away whilst trying to build from the back. Siggurdson could have done what he did under Silva and just float forward hoping for a knock down or a cross. That football gets you nowhere but covers limitations. Even if it’s on the. Punter attack, Carlo’s football on the deck is riskier and harder to do. I think when we get some better players in we’ll see the value of the work this season.

Tielemans is a fantastic player, no doubt. As you say though, they paid what would be a record fee for him. I'd have to check, but I don't think Brands has spent that sort of money, on a single player we have signed.

Up until Ancelotti arriving Leicester were miles ahead of us, but since he arrived we are very close to them. We have massively closed the gap. The 3 games we have played against Leicester have seen 2 comfortable Everton win's and a draw for Leicester with us missing 3 clear chanes at the end to win it.

I mean full props to Leicester, but the way it is reported it's as if they are miles head of us, and I'm not sure the evidence supports it since Ancelotti has arrived.

 

[Egil Olsen]

Tielemans was always a hot prospect in Europe, hence why he cost them 40 mill to buy (which would be up there with our record signing). I think he’d be miles above anything we have in midfield regardless of how we were playing.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the Carlo philosophy bit. I think we could have played absolute safety first percentage football (like we did under Silva and Koeman) and we wouldn’t have seen errors like Davies v Burnley or Holgate v Villa, players giving the ball away whilst trying to build from the back. Siggurdson could have done what he did under Silva and just float forward hoping for a knock down or a cross. That football gets you nowhere but covers limitations. Even if it’s on the. Punter attack, Carlo’s football on the deck is riskier and harder to do. I think when we get some better players in we’ll see the value of the work this season.

Tielemans has always been an enormous talent, but he needed the right environment to reach his potential. He got that in Leiecester. At the same time, he has had less good periods here as well. He has during the period been referred to the bench by Rodgers.

There is really nothing to disagree about when it comes to Carlos' philosophy. He prefers to play directly, and is a big fan of counter-attacking football. There is also nothing wrong with that, and done well it is very entertaining to watch. The problem is that we are not very good at it.

Tieleman's price tag rose quite considerably after his loan spell in Leicester, and that there were several competing clubs that pushed up the price. In Monaco he was a flop.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Tielemans is a fantastic player, no doubt. As you say though, they paid what would be a record fee for him. I'd have to check, but I don't think Brands has spent that sort of money, on a single player we have signed.

Up until Ancelotti arriving Leicester were miles ahead of us, but since he arrived we are very close to them. We have massively closed the gap. The 3 games we have played against Leicester have seen 2 comfortable Everton win's and a draw for Leicester with us missing 3 clear chanes at the end to win it.

I mean full props to Leicester, but the way it is reported it's as if they are miles head of us, and I'm not sure the evidence supports it since Ancelotti has arrived.

They’ve done well to win the FA Cup no doubt. Had we played United with our best players fit rather than City then the outcome may have been different and we might have gone a step further. Could we have then edged Chelsea in the final? Perhaps.

The key for me is though that Carlo got us to those two quarter finals and had us competitive in both. We failed because we had players missing and were up agaisnt better teams at full strength. Over the 90 mins that told. If we keep doing that though, then eventually we will either get a fortuitous draw or we will arrive in better form and win one. That is how trophies are won, you keep putting yourself in those positions. Prior to this season we hadn’t been in decent positions since Martinez’s last season.

 

[catcherintherye]

They’ve done well to win the FA Cup no doubt. Had we played United with our best players fit rather than City then the outcome may have been different and we might have gone a step further. Could we have then edged Chelsea in the final? Perhaps.

The key for me is though that Carlo got us to those two quarter finals and had us competitive in both. We failed because we had players missing and were up agaisnt better teams at full strength. Over the 90 mins that told. If we keep doing that though, then eventually we will either get a fortuitous draw or we will arrive in better form and win one. That is how trophies are won, you keep putting yourself in those positions. Prior to this season we hadn’t been in decent positions since Martinez’s last season.

Yes we were unfortunate to draw the best team in Europe at the time in the quarters. Had we have had Leicester easier run, I think we've shown enough this season to say we too would/could have won it.

 

[4737carlin]

Tielemans is a fantastic player, no doubt. As you say though, they paid what would be a record fee for him. I'd have to check, but I don't think Brands has spent that sort of money, on a single player we have signed.

Up until Ancelotti arriving Leicester were miles ahead of us, but since he arrived we are very close to them. We have massively closed the gap. The 3 games we have played against Leicester have seen 2 comfortable Everton win's and a draw for Leicester with us missing 3 clear chanes at the end to win it.

I mean full props to Leicester, but the way it is reported it's as if they are miles head of us, and I'm not sure the evidence supports it since Ancelotti has arrived.

Leicester are miles ahead of us, not just the 5 league places but they have just won a major trophy, something that isnt in living memory for a lot of Evertons fanbase.
Besides they have made real progress this season, moving into the CL spots, while were just not as bad as we were last season.

 

[catcherintherye]

Leicester are miles ahead of us, not just the 5 league places but they have just won a major trophy, something that isnt in living memory for a lot of Evertons fanbase.
Besides they have made real progress this season, moving into the CL spots, while were just not as bad as we were last season.

They will be around 5-8 points ahead of us. Yes they are ahead but it's not miles ahead. It was a couple of year ago.

 

[TheBigIguana]

They will be around 5-8 points ahead of us. Yes they are ahead but it's not miles ahead. It was a couple of year ago.

They're pretty far ahead for me. Without some serious signings this summer I have a hard time making a case for us finishing ahead of them next season.

 

[Egil Olsen]

I completely agree that it is good with a slightly broader perspective. Coincidences play a significant role, although many will not admit it. Especially when it comes to draws in tournaments, when you meet opponents, and during a football match / matches. That is also partly my point, based on games and chances, we have partly been lucky in the league. But if you work well and systematically over several years, you will reduce these coincidences.

This is where Leicester deserves praise. They have done something about the factors they can control themselves. Hopefully we will learn, perhaps not with the same model as Leicester, but a model that makes us competitive over time. It is possible we are on our way there now, and what we do in the next transfer window will say a lot about the direction we choose to go. I hope we find the key, but as an Everton supporter for over 30 years, based on previous experience, one becomes skeptical. We also tend to always find good excuses, instead of learning from mistakes.

 

[catcherintherye]

They're pretty far ahead for me. Without some serious signings this summer I have a hard time making a case for us finishing ahead of them next season.

How do we explain being between 7-10 points behind them with 2 to go this season then? Have we overachieved and they under achieved this season?

 

[TheBigIguana]

How do we explain being between 7-10 points behind them with 2 to go this season then? Have we overachieved and they under achieved this season?

We've overachieved yes

 

[Eggs]

Leicester are miles ahead of us, not just the 5 league places but they have just won a major trophy, something that isnt in living memory for a lot of Evertons fanbase.
Besides they have made real progress this season, moving into the CL spots, while were just not as bad as we were last season.

....I think we’ve taken 4 points off Leicester including a win at their place. Saying that, the league doesn’t lie at this stage and they are superior to us. I don’t think they are ‘miles better’, but they are better. Man City are miles better.

I think there’s a group of teams where there isn’t that much between them.

 

[canuckblue]

We've overachieved yes

Given that Newcastle did the double over us and that we only got one point off Burnley and Villa and lost at home to the likes of Leeds and Fulham, I don't think we've overachieved at all. Doing the double over Arsenal was nice in terms of recent history, but they're on the decline and will likely finish below us.