2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[Efcjake]

They have not finished 6th under Klopp. I double checked again, you made me doubt myself there lol. He arrived in October 2015 and finished 8th, with two cup finals in that season. In his 2nd season, 2016/17, they finished 4th.

According to Wikipedia, in that 19 months, Klopp spent £67 million pounds on 6 players and sold 16 players for £76.5 million pounds. Since Ancelotti arrived, he has spent £61.7 million pounds on 5 players and sold 9 players for £6 million pounds.

This is why I said, it's a tough comparison because the two jobs were very different when they arrived.

Don't bring up net spend please I beg you.

 

[GwladysBlue]

They finished 8th and won nothing that season.

Yes, Salah and Mane were similar prices to what we spent but they also had a much better squad than ours to begin with when Klopp walked in than what Ancelotti was given to work with.

I don't care how they got the money they spent on players, the fact is they've bought multiple players at 70 million. We have none and only one that cost us more than 40.

It's ridiculous to say that present day Ancelotti has the same platform to improve on that Klopp had when he walked in. They were only 2 years off of finishing in 2nd place when Klopp took over ffs and we've had two flirtations with relegation under Koeman and Silva with most of the squad Ancelotti inherited.

I think the key point to make in all of this is I don’t think anyone expects Ancelotti to replicate the job Klopp has done. I just wanted him to make us a competitive outfit and finish 7th and get us into Europe.

I don’t think we can have any excuses to not finish 7th and anything less than Europe would be deemed failure, once again.

 

[neilsyd]

I don’t really care how Klopp did. I’d just like to see better team selections, maybe even trying some hungry youth players instead of the proven dross we already know. Maybe in their actual positions. I’d also like to see some sort of style/formation, managers imprint on a team after 12 months. Fitness levels are certainly not improving but I have no idea what actually is improving, DCL aside.....
Results can come secondary if I can see a manager building something and a plan. I just can’t work out what he’s doing right now

 

[Efcjake]

I think the key point to make in all of this is I don’t think anyone expects Ancelotti to replicate the job Klopp has done. I just wanted him to make us a competitive outfit and finish 7th and get us into Europe.

I don’t think we can have any excuses to not finish 7th and anything less than Europe would be deemed failure, once again.

Did you expect him to do that over the 5 months he was in the job after he took over from Silva who barely got us any points on the board? Even with the extra issues produced by COVID that we've had to deal with? It's not been an ideal situation.

If you want to be fair then give him the season and a half it took Klopp to improve their league position before making that judgement.

He's been in the job a year and signed 4 players.

I think we do still have excuses not to finish 7th unless you actually rate most of this squad outside of the first 11 but from the posts I've seen from you it is clear that you don't. If you're willing to admit that this squad is flawed then I don't see how you can have these expectations until those problems are resolved. One transfer window and 4 players is a start but it isn't close to what we need to do to really kick this team on into 7th and Europe.

City, the RS, Chelsea, Spurs are without a doubt far better squads than ours. Arsenal and Utd are also stronger squads than us imo. That's 6 teams that I would reasonably expect to finish ahead of us. Then we have the teams below them in Leicester and Wolves and to be honest I think that they still have better squads than ours as well. That's 8 teams I would say have better strength in depth than we do though our first team is match for most of them.

With that in mind I think 7th would be an overachievement based on the strength of the squad available to us.

 

[derek duvall]

They finished 8th and won nothing that season.

Yes, Salah and Mane were similar prices to what we spent but they also had a much better squad than ours to begin with when Klopp walked in than what Ancelotti was given to work with.

I don't care how they got the money they spent on players, the fact is they've bought multiple players at 70 million. We have none and only one that cost us more than 40.

It's ridiculous to say that present day Ancelotti has the same platform to improve on that Klopp had when he walked in. They were only 2 years off of finishing in 2nd place when Klopp took over ffs and we've had two flirtations with relegation under Koeman and Silva with most of the squad Ancelotti inherited.

So if Carlo gets us to 2 cup finals this year and doesn’t win either, he hasn’t improved us?

 

[GwladysBlue]

Did you expect him to do that over the 5 months he was in the job after he took over from Silva who barely got us any points on the board? Even with the extra issues produced by COVID that we've had to deal with? It's not been an ideal situation.

If you want to be fair then give him the season and a half it took Klopp to improve their league position before making that judgement.

He's been in the job a year and signed 4 players.

I think we do still have excuses not to finish 7th unless you actually rate most of this squad outside of the first 11 but from the posts I've seen from you it is clear that you don't. If you're willing to admit that this squad is flawed then I don't see how you can have these expectations until those problems are resolved. One transfer window and 4 players is a start but it isn't close to what we need to do to really kick this team on into 7th and Europe.

City, the RS, Chelsea, Spurs are without a doubt far better squads than ours. Arsenal and Utd are also stronger squads than us imo. That's 6 teams that I would reasonably expect to finish ahead of us. Then we have the teams below them in Leicester and Wolves and to be honest I think that they still have better squads than ours as well. That's 8 teams I would say have better strength in depth than we do though our first team is match for most of them.

With that in mind I think 7th would be an overachievement based on the strength of the squad available to us.

So, let me get this right, you think 7th place is beyond £11m a year Carlo Ancelotti?

Why are we paying him the big bucks then?

In recent years, managers like Koeman and Sean Dyche have achieved this lofty position but Ancelotti, with players like James, DCL, Digne and Richarlison at his disposal, can’t achieve this?

 

[Efcjake]

So if Carlo gets us to 2 cup finals this year and doesn’t win either, he hasn’t improved us?

It would be a far bigger achievement taking us to two cup finals than it was for Klopp to take Liverpool to two cup finals given that they were in both semi finals for the domestic cups the year before and the relative strengths of the squads they took over.

 

[MikeH72]

Did you expect him to do that over the 5 months he was in the job after he took over from Silva who barely got us any points on the board? Even with the extra issues produced by COVID that we've had to deal with? It's not been an ideal situation.

If you want to be fair then give him the season and a half it took Klopp to improve their league position before making that judgement.

He's been in the job a year and signed 4 players.

I think we do still have excuses not to finish 7th unless you actually rate most of this squad outside of the first 11 but from the posts I've seen from you it is clear that you don't. If you're willing to admit that this squad is flawed then I don't see how you can have these expectations until those problems are resolved. One transfer window and 4 players is a start but it isn't close to what we need to do to really kick this team on into 7th and Europe.

City, the RS, Chelsea, Spurs are without a doubt far better squads than ours. Arsenal and Utd are also stronger squads than us imo. That's 6 teams that I would reasonably expect to finish ahead of us. Then we have the teams below them in Leicester and Wolves and to be honest I think that they still have better squads than ours as well. That's 8 teams I would say have better strength in depth than we do though our first team is match for most of them.

With that in mind I think 7th would be an overachievement based on the strength of the squad available to us.

The frustrating thing from my point of view, is that results could easily and probably should have been better in recent weeks but for his own poor decision making. There really was no excuse to play Fabian Delph at wing back and not have the backup wing back on the bench at the weekend, likewise there is no reason to be bringing Cenk Tosun onto the pitch to not touch the ball while at the same time freezing Anthony Gordon out. He has had some options in the past few weeks, and has chosen the wrong one consistently.

5th and 6th spot are really up for grabs this season. Arsenal are out of the picture, Leicester and Wolves are up and down, United are managed by an idiot, Southampton are bound to tail off. The last few seasons when the top 6 was a closed shop, I’d say 7th would’ve been an achievement. But now, honestly, I’d see that as a little bit underwhelming.

 

[luuk_deventer]

It would be a far bigger achievement taking us to two cup finals than it was for Klopp to take Liverpool to two cup finals given that they were in both semi finals for the domestic cups the year before and the relative strengths of the squads they took over.

I think if Ancelotti got this Everton team to 7th and won a cup, you would have to say that he will have performed better than Klopp when you look at their first two seasons side by side.

I think, with the investment in Ancelotti and the ambition the board has shown by backing him with signings this summer, and hopefully in the future, then the team really needs to achieve Europa League Football one way or another this season. Anything less will be disappointing. It would also have consequences as it may mean the team would be under pressure to sell key players.

 

[Efcjake]

So, let me get this right, you think 7th place is beyond £11m a year Carlo Ancelotti?

Why are we paying him the big bucks then?

In recent years, managers like Koeman and Sean Dyche have achieved this lofty position but Ancelotti, with players like James, DCL, Digne and Richarlison at his disposal, can’t achieve this?

I think 7th place is probably beyond this squad as it is today. Do you think we have a better squad than everyone else bar City, RS, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and Utd? I don't think we do. I think our first 11 is better than the other 13 teams but our squad is paper thin and over the season they will handle injuries better than us.

We're paying him big bucks on the promise of what we expect him to achieve over the full length of his contract not just what he accomplishes in his first year.

Koeman achieved 7th, what 3/4 years ago? In that time our squad has stood still or regressed and the competition hasn't. Wolves came up from the Championship and leapfrogged us over the past 2 years. Leicester and the other 6 teams we expect to be above us all improved their squad and we have not over that period as our league finishes since clearly indicate.

 

[MikeH72]

I think 7th place is probably beyond this squad as it is today. Do you think we have a better squad than everyone else bar City, RS, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and Utd? I don't think we do. I think our first 11 is better than the other 13 teams but our squad is paper thin and over the season they will handle injuries better than us.

We're paying him big bucks on the promise of what we expect him to achieve over the full length of his contract not just what he accomplishes in his first year.

Koeman achieved 7th, what 3/4 years ago? In that time our squad has stood still or regressed and the competition hasn't. Wolves came up from the Championship and leapfrogged us over the past 2 years. Leicester and the other 6 teams we expect to be above us all improved their squad and we have not over that period as our league finishes since clearly indicate.

Arsenal are finishing about 10th though m8.

 

[Efcjake]

The frustrating thing from my point of view, is that results could easily and probably should have been better in recent weeks but for his own poor decision making. There really was no excuse to play Fabian Delph at wing back and not have the backup wing back on the bench at the weekend, likewise there is no reason to be bringing Cenk Tosun onto the pitch to not touch the ball while at the same time freezing Anthony Gordon out. He has had some options in the past few weeks, and has chosen the wrong one consistently.

5th and 6th spot are really up for grabs this season. Arsenal are out of the picture, Leicester and Wolves are up and down, United are managed by an idiot, Southampton are bound to tail off. The last few seasons when the top 6 was a closed shop, I’d say 7th would’ve been an achievement. But now, honestly, I’d see that as a little bit underwhelming.

I see where you are coming from but those problems are coming from Ancelotti having zero faith in a lot of this squad imo.

I think we can see now that he clearly does not rate or trust most of the players outside of the first 11 and so he's tinkering to try and find a solution because he cannot simply make a 1-to-1 change when one of that first 11 is injured without it weakening the team.

If he had full backs he trusted instead of a young NKounkou and the average-at-best Kenny we would not be playing 3 at the back. I blame Brands for the state of the squad being how it is and for forcing Ancelotti into these changes to accomodate for the weaknesses in the squad.

I think Arsenal, Leicester, Wolves, and Utd may find that consistency easier than we will because as I said before I think they have better equipped squads than us. Besides Arsenal, their managers have been established longer than Ancelotti and have had more time to build the squad the way they want.

 

[Efcjake]

Arsenal are finishing about 10th though m8.

Not after they sack Arteta

 

[neilsyd]

Crazy how every argument is just based on squad depth and squad strengths and then people finish accordingly. That’s actually not how it works. Some players respond to methods of coaching/training but most of all being part of a cohesive team which believes in itself and has certain standards expected by the manager. People mention wolves and Leicester having better squads but their managers are no doubt also playing to that squads strengths in order for onlookers like ourselves to actually think they’re maybe better than they are. We have to give Ancelotti time but all the pro Ancelotti people here are basically just making out he’s a chequebook manager. And that’s what we didn’t need when he came in.

 

[MikeH72]

I see where you are coming from but those problems are coming from Ancelotti having zero faith in a lot of this squad imo.

I think we can see now that he clearly does not rate or trust most of the players outside of the first 11 and so he's tinkering to try and find a solution because he cannot simply make a 1-to-1 change when one of that first 11 is injured without it weakening the team.

If he had full backs he trusted instead of a young NKounkou and the average-at-best Kenny we would not be playing 3 at the back. I blame Brands for the state of the squad being how it is and for forcing Ancelotti into these changes to accomodate for the weaknesses in the squad.

I think Arsenal, Leicester, Wolves, and Utd may find that consistency easier than we will because as I said before I think they have better equipped squads than us. Besides Arsenal, their managers have been established longer than Ancelotti and have had more time to build the squad the way they want.

But why does he trust a clearly finished Delph to play left back ahead of Nkounkou? To me that just doesn’t make any sense, and I’ve yet to see any evidence that it was the correct call. Unless it’s simply a case of age, which is poor and ageist if so.

Nkounkou has played in first team games and been fine, Delph has played in first team games and been terrible, and is a midfielder, and is finished. That’s on Ancelotti and not Brands, he needs to explain his decision making. No one forced him to not have our only fit left back on the bench.