Champions League revamp

[NilSatisOptimum]

Rumour not going away that Johnson and government was aware of Super league days before after meeting with Woodward. Would not hold my breath the basic premise of this Super League is the essence of Conservative economic belief system.

European Super League plans 'not discussed' with Man Utd's Ed Woodward - No 10

European Super League plans "were not discussed" when Manchester United executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward attended a meeting at No 10, according to Downing Street.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[catcherintherye]

European Super League: New rule passed which would ban breakaway clubs from Serie A

The Italian Football Federation approves a rule that would ban clubs who sign up to breakaway competitions from competing in Serie A.

www.bbc.co.uk

If it gets through significant, it will set the precadent for all leagues to follow. Good on them.

 

[davek]

the big difference is there is a fixed penalty for administration, there is not for a breach of Rule 9.

One outcome in the next few weeks will be clear punishments for a future breach

The people who make these rules up can set whatever punishement they wish. It's their league.

 

[catcherintherye]

the big difference is there is a fixed penalty for administration, there is not for a breach of Rule 9.

One outcome in the next few weeks will be clear punishments for a future breach

I mean I do understand that, but once upon a time there wasn't a fixed penalty. Indeed most legal systems don't operate on fixed penalties, but there is a working assumption that if you breach a rule you will be punished, and if it's never been breached before there will obviously be no precadent to work from.

It's also worth noting, this is a very different argument to "but it punishes the fans" guff we here. I mean is there a single punishment ever dihed out, that doesn't have a negative impact on someone close to the perpetuator?

I mean it's an open and shut case they should be punished. I happen to agree wiith you,I think what we will now see is a very clear stance taken on what happens if it occurs again- and judging from Italy (which will establish the precadent) it will mean they have to leave the league. I must admit I'm not as keen on punishment as I am on having a future deterrent. Personally I would make all teams sign a contract for 10 years, which essentially states if you leave you have to pay back say 5 years of TV revenue. Something quite stringent. And in 5 years you make it clear it will be extended for 5 years, so there is never less than 5 years to run on that Agreement. Any failure to sign, would lead to automatic relegation. That would make a lot of sense to me, in terms of safeguarding the competition.

I'll be frank though, if they have taken sensitive documents as is being alleged to the discussions with the ESL, then they should be kicked out. In my line of work, if I did that not only would I be unable to continue in my job, but I'd likely be facing criminal charges (not least to stuff around GDPR).

I really don't think the league can hide behind the "well no punishment was outlined" sort of stuff, like the assumption being rules can just be broken without consequence. Nobody in their right mind would think that.

 

[Nymzee]

If it gets through significant, it will set the precadent for all leagues to follow. Good on them.

They don't have much issue in Italy with smacking clubs with a hammer.

 

[catcherintherye]

They don't have much issue in Italy with smacking clubs with a hammer.

I think once one league does it, it will become established practice. I'd imagine UEFA may insist on it.

 

[number4.]

If it gets through significant, it will set the precadent for all leagues to follow. Good on them.

it makes perfect sense - shame it is only future facing to the best of my knowledge

 

[catcherintherye]

it makes perfect sense - shame it is only future facing to the best of my knowledge

I mean I think it has to be at this point. As you will see from my previous post, I'm really more in favour of ensuring things are right moving forward than punishing. If you gave me the choice, I'd take the measures that ensure it won't happen again every single time.

I think closing that grey between what happens if they go, and making it clear they can't participate in domestic leagues, making sure that is very clear, is obviously a very good starting measure on this. And if it's in early, nobody can complain if it happens again, as we will all "know the score" as it were.

 

[number4.]

I mean I do understand that, but once upon a time there wasn't a fixed penalty. Indeed most legal systems don't operate on fixed penalties, but there is a working assumption that if you breach a rule you will be punished, and if it's never been breached before there will obviously be no precadent to work from.

It's also worth noting, this is a very different argument to "but it punishes the fans" guff we here. I mean is there a single punishment ever dihed out, that doesn't have a negative impact on someone close to the perpetuator?

I mean it's an open and shut case they should be punished. I happen to agree wiith you,I think what we will now see is a very clear stance taken on what happens if it occurs again- and judging from Italy (which will establish the precadent) it will mean they have to leave the league. I must admit I'm not as keen on punishment as I am on having a future deterrent. Personally I would make all teams sign a contract for 10 years, which essentially states if you leave you have to pay back say 5 years of TV revenue. Something quite stringent. And in 5 years you make it clear it will be extended for 5 years, so there is never less than 5 years to run on that Agreement. Any failure to sign, would lead to automatic relegation. That would make a lot of sense to me, in terms of safeguarding the competition.

I'll be frank though, if they have taken sensitive documents as is being alleged to the discussions with the ESL, then they should be kicked out. In my line of work, if I did that not only would I be unable to continue in my job, but I'd likely be facing criminal charges (not least to stuff around GDPR).

I really don't think the league can hide behind the "well no punishment was outlined" sort of stuff, like the assumption being rules can just be broken without consequence. Nobody in their right mind would think that.

firstly the punishing the fans line is absolute nonsense, it is PR driven from a pundit or two who want to be popular. I dont think an honest fan of the 12 could argue anyform of punishment is unfair.

Regarding it being an open and shut case, Im not so sure. Any lawyer could spend a good bit of time making a case that the didnt violate rule9. They clearly intended to, but that is not enough in CAS or the likes, their defence will be "We always intended to respect the PL voting structure and regret in the manner in which we announced it"

It is clearly a pile of lies, but regarding the case being open and shut, im not so sure

 

[number4.]

I mean I think it has to be at this point. As you will see from my previous post, I'm really more in favour of ensuring things are right moving forward than punishing. If you gave me the choice, I'd take the measures that ensure it won't happen again every single time.

I think closing that grey between what happens if they go, and making it clear they can't participate in domestic leagues, making sure that is very clear, is obviously a very good starting measure on this. And if it's in early, nobody can complain if it happens again, as we will all "know the score" as it were.

I agree & I think that is the outcome we will see - I dont believe there will be transfer bans or points deductions but the focus will be on the future punishments

 

[allen]

If it gets through significant, it will set the precadent for all leagues to follow. Good on them.

Isn’t already through?

 

[arch stanton]

If we fans want this punishment, we need to let Everton know - and fans of the other 14 need to do the same with their clubs.

I'm disappointed there's seemingly no effort to bring the supporters groups of the 14 (and even any of the 6 that might be on our side) together to state our case collectively.

I've emailed the club and the fans forum rep on this very matter. I urge everyone else to do the same. Apathy is their friend.

 

[brieverton]

I will continue to argue that hitting them on the TV contract (straight split, eliminating prize money and merit fees) will hurt more in the long run, neatly sidesteps the punishment debate and is more likely to get to 14 votes. It also means that they did not "get away with it" since that was never, ever in the frame before the debacle.



They're not mutually exclusive. I would encourage you to think about it this way, though - punishment and binding restrictions to commit to the league are linked issues, so the harder you punish them the less you can extract in concessions that prevent a repeat performance of this fiasco.

Public opinion is rock solid right now, but that could change - and it just might if these clubs start to be undone by harsh sanctions. Remember that they have more fans than we do, and therefore votes for MPs' seats. A fun but somewhat frivolous study would be figuring out whether or not their votes distribute in such a way as to endanger MPs if their fans flipped on the issue.

I would agree with this and its very likely the realpolitik of the situation that the clubs won't face punishment in the form we'd like, or in any form.

There still has to be an outcome to this whole affair though that there is a binding commitment not to attempt this again in any form amongst other things, with the most severe penalties if that commitment is broken. We have to emerge from this with a result that ensures long-term stability for us, particularly when about to embark on a £500m development such as we are.

Replacing CEOs or other senior execs at those clubs is just meaningless. If that's all that's on offer by way of sanction, then we'd have to oppose and look for support in my opinion.

There was an attempted coup here. If we are to have any faith in being members of a competition that doesn't take that seriously, then our entire future viability is open to question on an ongoing basis. At the very least we have to be satisfied that this isn't going to be attempted again, and on terms that don't mean that the PL / UEFA is just giving these clubs what they want by the back door.

It's a huge challenge for the club. We need to fight on all fronts possible.

 

[BlueToff]

Which poster was in here the other day saying that Bayern don't dominate because of money?

Good player in Germany? Bayern buy them.

Best coach? Bayern hire them.

 

[NathDogg]

Have to say, the sight of 3 of these scab teams still allowed to be playing in the cl semi finals, with two of them in the europa league semis, and remaining in both competions (with 2 of these scum clubs likely to win each competition!) this season, leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

Allowing them to continue has definitely lessened the appeal of the competitions in my eyes, and I'm sure in the eyes of many fans across the globe - even without the ESL going ahead just yet - in a way the scab 12 have already won.