Conspiracy theories

[WA Toffee]

I haven’t provided you with any credit mate. I’ve just stated that ‘fact checking’ isn’t always reliable, and when it comes to establishing the cause of this coronavirus outbreak, any so-called ‘fact check’ can’t be classed as factual. They’re hypotheses based on little to no evidence, which claim to be factual without being factual.

This is a topic in and of itself. Who is doing the fact checking? Are we expected to believe that they are all-seeing, all-knowing, oracles that have no bias and are subject to no influence?

The claim that this coronavirus is ‘more likely’ to have derived from somewhere other than the massive coronavirus testing laboratory in Wuhan is a prime example of this.

I’ve even seen it be claimed that it’s not possible to have come from the massive coronavirus testing lab. Based on what? Sod all is the answer, so there has been no ‘fact check’ just speculation from a human being that will be subjected to bias and influence, and a search engine that controls who sees what.

Fair enough. I've studied microbiology at Uni, so I do have a bit of understanding on the subject. I also have a bit of knowledge about scientific process in general. I also know that googling a few pages does not count as fact checking.

However, just because you don't understand science is not an argument against it. Just because there is a chance you are correct (and there is a tiny chance that you are correct) is not sufficient for me to dicard all my scientific knowledge and think that it has become likely to be some sort of global conspiracy. It is very very unlikely. Not impossible, but very very unlikely.

 

[verreauxi]

I haven’t provided you with any credit mate. I’ve just stated that ‘fact checking’ isn’t always reliable, and when it comes to establishing the cause of this coronavirus outbreak, any so-called ‘fact check’ can’t be classed as factual. They’re hypotheses based on little to no evidence, which claim to be factual without being factual.

This is a topic in and of itself. Who is doing the fact checking? Are we expected to believe that they are all-seeing, all-knowing, oracles that have no bias and are subject to no influence?

The claim that this coronavirus is ‘more likely’ to have derived from somewhere other than the massive coronavirus testing laboratory in Wuhan is a prime example of this.

I’ve even seen it be claimed that it’s not possible to have come from the massive coronavirus testing lab. Based on what? Sod all is the answer, so there has been no ‘fact check’ just speculation from a human being that will be subjected to bias and influence, and a search engine that controls who sees what.

I don't think you understand how the following things work: science, probability, likelihood, burden of proof, and evidence.

 

[WA Toffee]

Fact checking isn’t reliable though is it? You’ve just admitted that it’s entirely possible that the virus could have come from a lab, and yet you, and other fact checking sources, have claimed that it ‘more likely’ developed from a mutation outside of the lab.

Yes, I did admit it may have come from a lab, because I was talking about a hypothesis, not a fact check.

Describing something as ‘more likely’ means that you have been unable to establish the facts, and when you can’t even state how or why one hypothesis is ‘more likely’ than the other, then no facts have been established AT ALL. So it’s pretty crap fact checking all around if your relying on unexplained ‘more likely’s’.

Why you are applying fact check rules to a hypothesis is a bit of a mystery, perhaps you would care to elaborate?

I’m not convinced that there are labs just like the one in Wuhan in every major city. Yeah, the University of Liverpool will have it’s centre for infectious diseases which a load of spotty undergrads wearing white coats before they spend the night get hammered in ‘The Raz’. But it’s not the same category of lab as the Wuhan one. The Wuhan lab has specifically been studying coronaviruses for the last 15 years at least.

If you want to talk specifically about category 4 biolabs, there are 55 registered labs (plus probably a few secret ones too). So by continually stating the fact that one of them is in Wuhan as if it is the only place in the world doing this type of research is really a red herring isn't it

You seem to be confident that we won’t need any type of passport, I hope that you are correct! But as I said before, if there is a passport I don’t see it looking like a certificate for swimming 25 metres in primary school. The passport will be digital in some form or another, whether it be in your body or some harmless ‘app’ on your phone that records everywhere that you move!

Something like google maps you mean? Because that already tracks exactly where you have been. They even send you monthly reports. Why would "they" go to all this trouble for something "they" already have?

 

[bluejohn66]

Please can we get back onto flying saucers n Yeti's n shiit.

 

[Tramps_mate]

Richard knows the score:

Catastrophic cost of lockdown, says RICHARD MADELEY | Richard and Judy | Columnists | Comment | Express.co.uk

THIS week a friend told me about an elderly relative who died a few weeks ago from emphysema. The poor man, a lifelong smoker, had been slowly suffocating for a year or more. He wasn't expected to make it past May. Sure enough, he died before the month was out. Of emphysema.

www.express.co.uk

Hard to disagree..

 

[PhilM]

Wasn't there someone on here that was living in China at the start and had said about a phone app that did pretty much the same, that you used for a 'visa' to go shopping and was monitored for your whereabouts?

WeChat? It’s pretty much the go to app in China being almost like a mini OS with instant messaging, payments, tickets et al. All monitored of course.

 

[malcson]

Yes, he’s been involved in so much ‘philanthropy’ that it’s made him the de facto owner/ruler of some extremely powerful institutions including the WHO and the foundation that carries his own name. Y’know the one that arranged a coronavirus simulation drama a few months before the terd hit the fan, it was called Event 201.

The man holds an immense amount of power, too much power! He’s not an angel either, one can look into his behaviours before he was capable of making his ‘donations’ and placing himself in prime position to save the world.

I don’t know what his motivations may be, but people should acknowledge that control is often much more sought after than money.

The poster above says we won’t be microchipped etc, well I don’t share his confidence. It has been shown that the world can be brought to its knees with something that isn’t even that deadly, relative to some other viruses, which are probably being messed about with in some lab somewhere.

It will be no surprise if there is some sort of ‘passport’, none whatsoever. How that passport remains to be seen. It’s likely to at least involve some sort of vaccination, and there’s gona have to be a way of testing who has been tested and who hasn’t? Do you think it will be a certificate, or something that can be detected ‘digitally’?

IF you believe conspiracy theories. Bill Gates ‘funds’ research into illnesses. A pandemic has been forecast for decades (based on science) hence all the references in books of fiction which CTs point to as somehow having inside knowledge of a plot. We should really ask why governments where not disaster planning for such an event rather than accuse Gates of nefarious motives.
Ask yourself why a man donating Billions to charity is subject to rumours of alternative motives? Same with Soros. Could it be that the right wing cabal behind many Conspiracies (including QAnon) don’t like their liberal politics?

 

[Dymak]

Fair enough. I've studied microbiology at Uni, so I do have a bit of understanding on the subject. I also have a bit of knowledge about scientific process in general. I also know that googling a few pages does not count as fact checking.

However, just because you don't understand science is not an argument against it. Just because there is a chance you are correct (and there is a tiny chance that you are correct) is not sufficient for me to dicard all my scientific knowledge and think that it has become likely to be some sort of global conspiracy. It is very very unlikely. Not impossible, but very very unlikely.

Given your massive degree of knowledge on the subject, please tell us all why the chance of the outbreak deriving from the massive coronavirus testing lab in Wuhan is considered “tiny” (your words)?

I don’t think we are miles apart here.

You admit that that we don’t know where the virus came from, you admit that it could have come from the massive coronavirus testing lab in Wuhan, and you admit that the claim that it didn’t come from the massive coronavirus testing lab is a hypothesis.

My argument is that any ‘fact checking’ on the subject of where this virus came from hasn’t been a fact check, they’re hypotheses where facts haven’t been established, which you agree with!

 

[Dymak]

I don't think you understand how the following things work: science, probability, likelihood, burden of proof, and evidence.

No, I think I do.

I‘m saying the so-called ‘fact checks’ on where this particular virus has derived from have been lacking in evidence to the point that they can’t be considered fact.

If you are aware of any conclusive proof then please share it? If you are of the opinion that the probability of the virus deriving from the massive coronavirus testing lab in Wuhan is somehow ‘tiny’ then go ahead and explain why, with, y’know, evidence.

 

[degsy]

Given your massive degree of knowledge on the subject, please tell us all why the chance of the outbreak deriving from the massive coronavirus testing lab in Wuhan is considered “tiny” (your words)?

I don’t think we are miles apart here.

You admit that that we don’t know where the virus came from, you admit that it could have come from the massive coronavirus testing lab in Wuhan, and you admit that the claim that it didn’t come from the massive coronavirus testing lab is a hypothesis.

My argument is that any ‘fact checking’ on the subject of where this virus came from hasn’t been a fact check, they’re hypotheses where facts haven’t been established, which you agree with!

Its likely it came from that area.
My theory is returning competitors from the World Military Games at Wuhan in Oct 2019 played a big part in the initial spread.
The research facility is in Wuhan
Was it
Deliberate
Accidental
Or purely chance via the market for fresh natural meat...bats and such if you will?
Who knows.
As far as I know the first US mention was in Seattle
Iran and Italy had big teams there and were early hot spots.
International Air Travel is a big transmission vector...but Iran is not a big nexus, not many people go there
Somebody with more skill and patience than me will find where the US Team flew back to after the Wuhan games.

Thats it, that's all I've got.

 

[Dymak]

IF you believe conspiracy theories. Bill Gates ‘funds’ research into illnesses. A pandemic has been forecast for decades (based on science) hence all the references in books of fiction which CTs point to as somehow having inside knowledge of a plot. We should really ask why governments where not disaster planning for such an event rather than accuse Gates of nefarious motives.
Ask yourself why a man donating Billions to charity is subject to rumours of alternative motives? Same with Soros. Could it be that the right wing cabal behind many Conspiracies (including QAnon) don’t like their liberal politics?

In all honesty, I’m not ‘believing’ in anything mate. I’m sitting here and waiting to see what happens next.

I think the term I used was that I would ‘raise an eyebrow’ if the person that comes to our saviour ends up being Bill Gates, and if the solution ends up including digital passports and the like.

People are saying with confidence that the human race won’t be microchipped at a time when Elon Musk is literally developing a ‘brain-to-machine interface’.

Neuralink: Elon Musk unveils pig with chip in its brain - BBC News

Gertrude the pig is a prototype of a brain-to-machine interface.

www.google.co.uk

He is of course making all kinds of claims about the possible positive use of such technology but not mentioning any of the very dangerous ones. Y’know, like mind control!

One of the things that I think has been made clear, if not proven, throughout this crisis, is that humans will be willing to accept almost anything when they are ravaged by fear and offered a ‘solution’.

Let’s see what happens? I certainly don’t hope this sort of stuff comes true. I want to live in a world where I can travel to Majorca whenever I want, without telling anyone, and paying cash if I want to.

 

[malcson]

In all honesty, I’m not ‘believing’ in anything mate. I’m sitting here and waiting to see what happens next.

I think the term I used was that I would ‘raise an eyebrow’ if the person that comes to our saviour ends up being Bill Gates, and if the solution ends up including digital passports and the like.

People are saying with confidence that the human race won’t be microchipped at a time when Elon Musk is literally developing a ‘brain-to-machine interface’.

Neuralink: Elon Musk unveils pig with chip in its brain - BBC News

Gertrude the pig is a prototype of a brain-to-machine interface.

www.google.co.uk

He is of course making all kinds of claims about the possible positive use of such technology but not mentioning any of the very dangerous ones. Y’know, like mind control!

One of the things that I think has been made clear, if not proven, throughout this crisis, is that humans will be willing to accept almost anything when they are ravaged by fear and offered a ‘solution’.

Let’s see what happens? I certainly don’t hope this sort of stuff comes true. I want to live in a world where I can travel to Majorca whenever I want, without telling anyone, and paying cash if I want to.

You really think people will accept being microchipped. That’s a long way on from being asked to wear a mask and stay distanced and even those relatively minor requests have initiated protests. Those kinds of suggestions are baseless and essentially a conspiracy theory in them self.

 

[Dymak]

You really think people will accept being microchipped. That’s a long way on from being asked to wear a mask and stay distanced and even those relatively minor requests have initiated protests. Those kinds of suggestions are baseless and essentially a conspiracy theory in them self.

Ultimately, I’m saying lets see what happens. I’m not pretending to be an oracle.

I’m also saying that it’s possible for governments to make vaccines mandatory under the law, that it’s now possible for vaccinations to have some sort of digital component, and that if people are scared enough they won’t even have to be forced into accepting them.

The prospect of a mandatory vaccination really isn’t far fetched, and the proof of vaccination won’t look like a certificate for swimming 25 metres.

 

[Zezti]

One for the UFO folks
Intriguing to an extent but ultimately seems either there are lots of bored Navy/AF people who like a hoax or conditions on the day make something completely natural seem unnatural.

 

[Groucho]

Ultimately, I’m saying lets see what happens. I’m not pretending to be an oracle.

I’m also saying that it’s possible for governments to make vaccines mandatory under the law, that it’s now possible for vaccinations to have some sort of digital component, and that if people are scared enough they won’t even have to be forced into accepting them.

The prospect of a mandatory vaccination really isn’t far fetched, and the proof of vaccination won’t look like a certificate for swimming 25 metres.

I have absolutely no problem with a mandatory vaccine.