Continuous mentality problem

[Verbal Kint]

Without getting into bs analysis about this and that, heart commitment etc etc etc... It all comes down to this....

Donkeys don't win Derbys

 

[diggerdestroyer]

Yet our last 2 managers have stated that players like jags, howard and barry have a hugh influence in the changing room. Well they should be proud because the results of their outstanding influence have been there for all to see. Jezzzz we need a clear out of this deadwood.

 

[EFC78]

I hate that bunch of whoppers across the way more than anything else on this planet. My contempt for them is dangerous. But even I have to admit a begrudging respect: they mobilise when things are rotten at their club, and their actions usually turn the tide.

Ignore the whopperish matches and homecoming ceremonies etc with zany flags - look at how they protested, marched and really made it known that their owners needed elbowing.

They've now got a club right back in the groove, loads of cash and a quality manager who understands them.

We just boo, moan and pin our hopes on the next transfer window.

Things will never be the same again.

How can anyone possibly compare their fans "situation" to ours? The lowest they've finished in 60 years is 8th. They're the second most successful club in the country with 18 league titles and 5 European Cups. That's nothing to do with their fans, it's because they've had some great teams down the years and they've now got a name that for some reason is still feared in this country, despite not having the best team for 26 years. Their ex players control the media, they get a positive slant given on nearly any situation involving them.

"When things are rotten" at their club it's a hundred times better than when things are "rotten" at ours.

You don't think they'd boo and moan if they'd seen some of the things we've seen in the last 20-25 years? Relegation fights, 0 trophies, no seasons in the CL, 0 wins at their derby rivals ground for 17 years, no win at their own ground in a derby for 7? They'd be worse in my opinion, far worse.

Our fans were excellent last night from just before kick off right up to half time. Then Koeman made a shocking sub by bringing on the ancient Barry and I don't think we had a single shot or chance in the second half which as usual killed the atmosphere.

 

[muddywolfjohnson]

if you go through our roster you'll find none of our players is a winner.
is there any single player on the team who has lifted a trophy in his professional life?

successful clubs not only buy "good" players. they go for winners. characters who has a desire to win and compete until the final whistle is blown.

koeman was a winner in his days as a player. he knows that 90% of the squad are rubbish. but unfortunatly that process will take time.

 

[Tricky Trevor 7]

Every single year. Different manager. Different players. Different owner. Same outcome. Why? Every year it's the same old story. Never mind the lack of trophies, but our Derby record is appalling as well as big games at big away grounds, big games at a a crucial time in a season. Something needs to change, maybe that's better players coming in but we've had the same problem for as long as I can remember as a fan.

I'm expecting big things in the future with a new man on board with ambition, but it needs to start with the mentality with not just the players, but with the whole club.

Because it's Everton

 

[Tricky Trevor 7]

I guess it's a bit like a house that's been left to deteriorate for years and years, the longer it's left the more work is going to have to be done to put it right. There's loads of factors as to why it's been this way for decades, both on and off the pitch and it's going to take a long time and a lot of money to fix it.

I've mocked Moshiri in jest a fair bit but I actually think he's rebuilding the whole infrastructure of the club, and that's a huge job. I'd like to see Elstone gone asap, I'd like to see him buyout the remainder of the shares, I'd like a new stadium and some shiny new players with a better attitude, but it's going to take time and I think he'll make all of those things happen. He's clearly not a stupid guy and you'd like to think that he's learnt from the failings of the last transfer window and the way we went about our business.

I guess only time will tell really.

Was told in the late 80s by the then Physio that Everton was run like the Vatican , there are dark corridors inside Goodison were corrupt people take out of the club . And some of those people still exist today at the club . And you only have to look at that lot over the park , how they have blown past us over the years .

 

[marsh]

I blame the fans

 

[maccavennie]

if you go through our roster you'll find none of our players is a winner.
is there any single player on the team who has lifted a trophy in his professional life?

successful clubs not only buy "good" players. they go for winners. characters who has a desire to win and compete until the final whistle is blown.

koeman was a winner in his days as a player. he knows that 90% of the squad are rubbish. but unfortunatly that process will take time.

I think Stekkers won the Dutch title
Williams has won the league cup
Mori has won a cup in Argentina
Mirallas has a league title to his name in Greece I think
Barry has won a league title
McCarthy has an FA cup winners medal
Lennon has won the league cup

I don't think it's anything to do with not having experience with winning medals. They just aren't a very good group of players. There's some talented individuals but as a group of players the chemistry just isn't right.
Look at the dogs of war side under Royle when we won the cup. Newcastle, Spurs and Utd were all favourites in those last 3 games but in each one we either outplayed the opposition ( Spurs) or out fought them ( Newcastle and Utd ). The chemistry was spot on.

Moyes built a side with great chemistry but just missing a little sprinkle of quality. Half of this squad needs selling and starting again. That's going to take some time, in fact I'd imagine next season is where we might actually see us with a team that isn't so physically and mentally fragile. What we see now isn't anything new, these players have long been scared of standing up to be counted in the big games. Everton Football Club is just too big for a lot of these players who have done well to make a living at a club like ours for so long.

 

[jceverton]

Let's be blunt this problem started with Moyes. When it came to taking a risk and actually going for a win in big games the guy was a big time bottler. This attitude transmits to the players, a lot of whom are still here. The other thing which I think doesn't help is team selection, when if you're thought of as a first team player you get straight back into the team no matter how well your deputy plays. Let people have to fight to get back in, it keeps people on their toes and I think makes them mentally tougher.

Lastly I think it's important that the manager has a kind of f*** you attitude towards Liverpool, who actually believes we are better than Liverpool. The last time we had this in a manager was with Joe Royle.

 

[Ashtonian]

if you go through our roster you'll find none of our players is a winner.
is there any single player on the team who has lifted a trophy in his professional life?

successful clubs not only buy "good" players. they go for winners. characters who has a desire to win and compete until the final whistle is blown.

koeman was a winner in his days as a player. he knows that 90% of the squad are rubbish. but unfortunatly that process will take time.

Pretty much the right response that.

People turn their noses up at the likes of Rooney saying he is past his best etc but he is a winner, and knows what is like to win. Players like Rooney, like Neville before him were winners, who knew what it took to win. Who do you think was the loudest in the dressing room when the team was crap under moyes? It iwas Neville, not davey, because he played at the highest level so knew when the players were dropping performances.

Same principle here, as you say none of them are winners, none of them are walking in that dressing room and getting their team mates up for the task. They are all satisfied to fail together rather than someone knowing how the get them up.

I would imagine if Koeman brought a couple of players in who were voices in that dressing room who were winners then the fortunes of the club would change dramatically.

 

[Ashtonian]

Let's be blunt this problem started with Moyes. When it came to taking a risk and actually going for a win in big games the guy was a big time bottler. This attitude transmits to the players, a lot of whom are still here. The other thing which I think doesn't help is team selection, when if you're thought of as a first team player you get straight back into the team no matter how well your deputy plays. Let people have to fight to get back in, it keeps people on their toes and I think makes them mentally tougher.

Lastly I think it's important that the manager has a kind of f*** you attitude towards Liverpool, who actually believes we are better than Liverpool. The last time we had this in a manager was with Joe Royle.

Agree with that.

He created a negative culture here, which is no suprise how often we fail in the bloody derby. Said it for years with him, he never played the team in front of him, he played their best team of all time. The derby was never carroll and adam, it was dagliesh and keegan on the field. I mean FFS he feared teams like reading when they hadn't beat anyone in 3 months!

 

[1966efc]

Without getting into bs analysis about this and that, heart commitment etc etc etc... It all comes down to this....

Donkeys don't win Derbys

 

[Brendan Janus]

Imagine how good our Derby record was up until the seventies !! Cause it is appalling since then !!

 

[Zatara]

Think you might be onto something there mate. He isn't quick enough anymore and it has a negative impact on the side.

Giving him a further 2 year extension is completely baffling and up there with extending Gibson's contract for ridiculous stunts.

When alot of posters were saying how amazing Barry was for the past years....imagine if we had an actual box to box player and Gueye in the side.

No comparison.

 

[Zatara]

I agree. I said last night this was the biggest issue in the squad. We have no leaders in our team. I know many will point to Williams but he is more of a organiser than a leader, same as Jagielka.

We need a proper leader. Some one who shows no respect to anyone regardless of reputation, trophies won or current form.
Funny really because I think our wins vs Liverpool in recent years contained two men clearly lacking in todays team.

Duncan Ferguson and Tim Cahill - fear nobody's reputation.

Someone like a Jens Jeremies next to Gueye...this Schneiderlin, is he a captain?