Continuous mentality problem

[Deleted member 24970]

Someone like a Jens Jeremies next to Gueye...this Schneiderlin, is he a captain?

Wouldn't say schneiderlin is a captain, but id like to think he would be more composed on the ball in tight/tense situations.

 

[Zatara]

Wouldn't say schneiderlin is a captain, but id like to think he would be more composed on the ball in tight/tense situations.

Looking at the supposed targets, not one stands out as a leader...which is a worry.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Looking at the supposed targets, not one stands out as a leader...which is a worry.

Dare I say it but id love a yard dog like Scott Brown (not literally him but of that snide/leader) to get in the opposition faces and refuse to lie down. Im sure @Mikey_Fitzgerald will have a more in depth analysis of him.

Even if this means going to the championship for example to find a tough character who has rose through the divisions, over to you Steve Walsh.

 

[evilwebby]

The OP is completely right, it is totally a mentality thing. Deep down we believe we are inferior, and so we play in that way.

I would suggest that if you pick ANY random first-team starting XI from the rest of the PL and line them up against Liverpool, repeated over 20 matches, they would outperform the current Everton first XI.

At the elite level of sport, SO much of your performance is in the mind. It is our ultimate failing that we have perpetuated a culture of failure and underachievement for the last 25 years. Loving and supporting Everton as a club in this time has been like trying to care for a f****d up mental patient with a self-harm streak. They're not right in the head, and eventually you just can't do it any more.

 

[Zatara]

Dare I say it but id love a yard dog like Scott Brown (not literally him but of that snide/leader) to get in the opposition faces and refuse to lie down. Im sure @Mikey_Fitzgerald will have a more in depth analysis of him.

Even if this means going to the championship for example to find a tough character who has rose through the divisions, over to you Steve Walsh.

Not for me....i think Gueye can be the 'destroyer'...

I'd like to see a real leader, box to box midfielder full of drive and determination and someone who would be a top player for us.

Not sure who but there are lots of players out there.

 

[evilwebby]

People saying that it is a quality thing are TOTALLY DELUDED.
Yes.. the have better players than us.

But you know what? On Monday night, Liverpool were total GARBAGE. They would have been played off the pitch by anyone in form. But WE managed to make them look good because, once again, no matter how bad they were, WE were worse.

It is totally a mentality thing when, no matter how low they set the bar, we always fail to clear it.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Not for me....i think Gueye can be the 'destroyer'...

I'd like to see a real leader, box to box midfielder full of drive and determination and someone who would be a top player for us.

Not sure who but there are lots of players out there.

The question I put to you is this, do we need the technical Steven gerrard, or the snide/pride Steven Gerrard ? He had both which bailed Liverpool out on so many occasions, which in return helped win trophies.

I think we have some technical quality but right now we need the snide/pride aspect more. Once we get our fight back, then we can focus on buying quality around it.

 

[Zatara]

The question I put to you is this, do we need the technical Steven gerrard, or the snide/pride Steven Gerrard ? He had both which bailed Liverpool out on so many occasions, which in return helped win trophies.

I think we have some technical quality but right now we need the snide/pride aspect more. Once we get our fight back, then we can focus on buying quality around it.

We need someone with it all...

See James Rodriguez, even if we somehow signed him, we would still lack a leader.

 

[evilwebby]

Yeah, a bit of perspective really. Everything went according to plan until McCarthy came off. If Rom or Ross could trap a ball, we may have even been able to trouble their goal. As distraught as I was at the result, there were encouraging signs that there's some spirit within this team that we can salvage

If the plan was to not have a shot on target in the first half of a home game, then yes, I can see how things went totally to plan.

 

[Prevenger17]

If the plan was to not have a shot on target in the first half of a home game, then yes, I can see how things went totally to plan.

We didn't have a shot on target because our attacks broke down as soon as the ball touched Rom or Barkley's feet. But the plan was good, we gave them absolutely nothing and they were visibly rattled. It was a personnel problem in the end

 

[Deleted member 24970]

We need someone with it all...

See James Rodriguez, even if we somehow signed him, we would still lack a leader.

Normally im good with young talent and I try to vary the selection based on many different skills, I mean for example I like the look of manuel locatelli for his composure and smoothness, yet I like franck Kessie from Atalanta for his drive and more of a box to box player.

Right now im struggling to find a player with both the technical ability and desire to win, if not win then to certaintly fight. Basically what im saying now is anybody who finds another Tim Cahill will have a £40m player on their hands in todays market.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

I think Stekkers won the Dutch title
Williams has won the league cup
Mori has won a cup in Argentina
Mirallas has a league title to his name in Greece I think
Barry has won a league title
McCarthy has an FA cup winners medal
Lennon has won the league cup

I don't think it's anything to do with not having experience with winning medals. They just aren't a very good group of players. There's some talented individuals but as a group of players the chemistry just isn't right.
Look at the dogs of war side under Royle when we won the cup. Newcastle, Spurs and Utd were all favourites in those last 3 games but in each one we either outplayed the opposition ( Spurs) or out fought them ( Newcastle and Utd ). The chemistry was spot on.

Moyes built a side with great chemistry but just missing a little sprinkle of quality. Half of this squad needs selling and starting again. That's going to take some time, in fact I'd imagine next season is where we might actually see us with a team that isn't so physically and mentally fragile. What we see now isn't anything new, these players have long been scared of standing up to be counted in the big games. Everton Football Club is just too big for a lot of these players who have done well to make a living at a club like ours for so long.

Good post. As they say hindsight is a wonderful thing. A lot on here will remember the first half of the 1983-84 season. Awful results (except the league cup), awful football, discontented fanbase and a team of players who had never won anything (ok Andy Gray won the LC with Wolves and Villa).
The difference, obviously, is one of quality. However, as I say, that quality is easy to see with hindsight. How many of us can honestly say they knew that those players were as good as they turned out to be? How many of us can honestly say they didn't doubt Howard Kendall in December 83. I certainly did. I wasn't calling for his head but I had my doubts.

I'm not suggesting for one minute this group can reproduce anything approaching the heights we saw with that team. I do insist though that we're probably not as bad as we appear at the moment.

I said in another thread that the right players (quality not quantity) brought in could produce the right 'chemical' reaction from these players.
I still believe that.

 

[Zatara]

Normally im good with young talent and I try to vary the selection based on many different skills, I mean for example I like the look of manuel locatelli for his composure and smoothness, yet I like franck Kessie from Atalanta for his drive and more of a box to box player.

Right now im struggling to find a player with both the technical ability and desire to win, if not win then to certaintly fight. Basically what im saying now is anybody who finds another Tim Cahill will have a £40m player on their hands in todays market.

Kessie is a bit like Essien but 'Essien-lite' to me...good going forward and 2 footed though. id like him.

Cahill is interesting but never a top player imo...I think we need a real star in the centre like a Roy Keane or Vieira type...

No idea who.

 

[COYBL25]

Because the players are spineless nobheads who bottle it every time a big game is there for the taking.

No wonder the fans can't be arsed to sing anymore. The crowd went for it from the off tonight but the players were goosed after half an hour.

Sell them all and replace them with dogs dressed in Everton kits. At least they wouldn't stop running and some of our more peculiar fans could have a sly tug at their seats.

" some of our more peculiar fans could have a sly tug at their seats "

 

[Jokerdan]

Personally, I think it is a media thing - the press/TV/radio talk us down ahead of every Derby whether or not we deserve it and this permeates into the minds of our players. Allied to the fact we have no born leader on the pitch. Someone in the Peter Reid and/or Dogs of War mould would never allow those players in blue shirts to lie down like we seem continually to do season on season. They say the best form of defence is attack but we need to start playing the ball on the ground and invest in some useful and fast counter-attacking players who actually know how to run at defenders. This useless punt (yes, you read it correctly although the alternative could apply to the majority of the current squad) out of defence to our one outlet up front i.e. Lukaku - who must be getting increasingly frustrated by the lack of support play - just invites the opposition to come straight back onto us.

I know there are no easy answers or quick fixes but whilst we can dream of a new stadium that is for the future. Our immediate concern has to be with the dross being served up week on week by bit-part players most of who would not get into any of the top Premier teams (I nearly said 'other top Premier teams' but that implies we are one of them and which we currently are not).

As Evertonians we are anything if not pragmatic but if the on field antics are not sorted pronto then we could see ourselves having the worst season finish in many years and with it the attraction for most top notch Continental players to want to join us in coming transfer windows leaving us even further behind.