Do Everton fans contribute to Everton's inferiority complex?

[GrandOldTeam]

The fans expect us to do well. The players don't expect to win tough games.

So no, I'd blame the club, players, staff, previous regimes etc.

Fans dont expect us to win tough games Tim.

I would have said yes to this but they are playing without fans and still the same issues are there.

Im not just on about crowds in stadiums.

And to be fair, our results with no fans have been good. It was only really that bad performance at Spurs and losing to a poxy, nothing goal.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Fans dont expect us to win tough games Tim.



Im not just on about crowds in stadiums.

And to be fair, our results with no fans have been good. It was only really that bad performance at Spurs and losing to a poxy, nothing goal.

Well no, most of us don't expect us to win tricky away games. I expect us to win pretty much every game at home though.

I don't think fan opinion pre-match has any effect on players though. I'm not sure it would be sensible for fans to expect us to win tough away games until we start winning the odd one, at the very least.

 

[Lanolin]

Fans dont expect us to win tough games Tim.



Im not just on about crowds in stadiums.

And to be fair, our results with no fans have been good. It was only really that bad performance at Spurs and losing to a poxy, nothing goal.

Is that true though? I'm not sure it is. We say we don't, because it's like a defence mechanism. I watched the Anfield cup game in the pub with a few mates and I was sat there going 'we'll lose this, just watch'. But really I expected us to win. I can't say I was surprised we lost, because it's just what we do, but actually I had been pretty confident we'd win. If you look at the comments on here after one of these games, how many people are just going 'ah well'? Most seem to come in kicking off saying we should have won as far as I can tell.

It seems to me like it doesn't matter whether the fans are bullish or apprehensive, we lose pretty regularly regardless. Wigan in the cup nobody was worried about -we lost. The most confident i've ever been going to Anfield was in Martinez's first season - we got annihilated. Most other games at Anfield I've expected us to lose, and we usually have. This is why I was asking the question before, what is it that people think we're doing wrong? Are we too demanding? Not demanding enough? Too positive, too negative?

 

[The binman chronicles]

Im not just on about crowds in stadiums.

And to be fair, our results with no fans have been good. It was only really that bad performance at Spurs and losing to a poxy, nothing goal.

By and large the results have been good but the performances have been lacklustre. A bright start against Leicester turned into a long hard slog despite us having a week's rest. Until the last 20 minutes of the derby we didn't get a look in and Norwich and Spurs could be chalked down as some of the worst games in PL history.

I know you are not specifically saying about fans at games, but to me that is the most visible sign of our nervousness and general worry that then could reflect onto the team.

We've all been at Goodison when during periods of games the largest sound is that collective sigh when another pass has not found its target, followed by the odd one or two hurling out abuse. Sometimes this happens so early on that you worry today is one of those days so in that respect I believe we are an issue. Them lot across the park are usually generally very good in the stadium of not getting on their backs and lifting them on, but the team have their part to play in that too and history shows that they generally overcome whereas we do not. It is a symbiotic relationship but even if we were to become the most carefree, happy-go-lucky supporters in the world we would not see a dramatic turnaround.

 

[Dymak]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. You can't tell me it was the fans inferiority complex that led to our collapse in the Semi-Final against Liverpool in 2012. We were more than confident enough both before and during the game. It was the players and the manager that cacked themselves.

Our fanbase has become very poor though; with regards to atmosphere and encouragement. Our fans are SILENT for most games, making our fan base one of the poorest across the entire football league, and possibly in Europe, or even the entire world. It was not always like this. It was better even in the grim 1990's.

Compare and contrast our miserable silence to the atmosphere seen below in the Andy King derby. Please bare in mind that we hadn't beaten them in eight years and they were wining everything in sight back then as well:

 

[paulbefc]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. You can't tell me it was the fans inferiority complex that led to our collapse in the Semi-Final against Liverpool in 2012. We were more than confident enough both before and during the game. It was the players and the manager that cacked themselves.

Our fanbase has become very poor though; with regards to atmosphere and encouragement. Our fans are SILENT for most games, making our fan base one of the poorest across the entire football league, and possibly in Europe, or even the entire world. It was not always like this. It was better even in the grim 1990's.

Compare and contrast our miserable silence to the atmosphere seen below in the Andy King derby. Please bare in mind that we hadn't beaten them in eight years and they were wining everything in sight back then as well:

This is such a poorly thought out and frankly daft idea. The "fanbase" has absolutely not become poor. When you take into account club size, circumstances, average income of supporters etc and then look at attendances home and away, Everton are the best supported side in the league. I've seen Leicester fans praised on here before (bizarrely). They sent back/turned down 3000 tickets for the league cup quarter final this season. They weren't far off the top of the league at the time. What message does that send the team? Were their players arsed? Of course not. They beat us and advanced to the semis. As they should, because they're a better team, assembled by someone with a clue what they're doing.

Players do not care. The really don't. And our players absolutely shouldn't be given the excuse of blaming the fans for being terrible/half-arsed. Nor should the clowns who've bought them.

The noise argument is also completely invalidated by the Emirates, Anfield, the Etihad and Old Trafford so I won't address that.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Is it pessimism or realism? Let’s face it, we do not have the cache to attract the very best players, and the whole Moshiri project has been a bit of a car crash so far.

 

[Dymak]

This is such a poorly thought out and frankly daft idea. The "fanbase" has absolutely not become poor. When you take into account club size, circumstances, average income of supporters etc and then look at attendances home and away, Everton are the best supported side in the league. I've seen Leicester fans praised on here before (bizarrely). They sent back/turned down 3000 tickets for the league cup quarter final this season. They weren't far off the top of the league at the time. What message does that send the team? Were their players arsed? Of course not. They beat us and advanced to the semis. As they should, because they're a better team, assembled by someone with a clue what they're doing.

Players do not care. The really don't. And our players absolutely shouldn't be given the excuse of blaming the fans for being terrible/half-arsed. Nor should the clowns who've bought them.

The noise argument is also completely invalidated by the Emirates, Anfield, the Etihad and Old Trafford so I won't address that.

We have numbers. But silence from 37,000 fans makes the same level of noise as silence from 14 fans. That's because silence means no noise at all.

You can't argue that a noisy, rowdy, Goodison Park makes for good support and then deny that miserable silence isn't poor support. You can't have it both ways, not if you want to avoid deluding yourself.

Anfield and the Emirates may have periods of quietness, but they seldom have miserable silence for an entire 90 mins. Again, you can kid yourself that they are as bad as us when it comes to prolonged silence, but you will just be deluding yourself again.

 

[paulbefc]

We have numbers. But silence from 37,000 fans makes the same level of noise as silence from 14 fans. That's because silence means no noise at all.

You can't argue that a noisy, rowdy, Goodison Park makes for good support and then deny that miserable silence isn't poor support. You can't have it both ways, not if you want to avoid deluding yourself.

Anfield and the Emirates may have periods of quietness, but they seldom have miserable silence for an entire 90 mins. Again, you can kid yourself that they are as bad as us when it comes to prolonged silence, but you will just be deluding yourself again.

At no point have I said that. Your whole point is that our "support" is relatively poor. It can't be if the other teams' atmosphere is also non-existent. I'm afraid the atmospheres at all the stadiums I mentioned are considerably quieter than Goodison. A lot of fans of a lot of clubs seem to think their support is the worst when it comes to noise at their home stadiums. The reality is, they're all pretty quiet. City won 198 points in two seasons at the Etihad. The myth should be put to bed there.

You could hear a pin drop at Anfield at many moments during our derby games against them in recent years with the odd mutter of something about 1995 and then silence again, while at Goodison it's been an bear pit each time. And still we haven't won one, while they've usually pasted us at Anfield.

Because they are a better team thanks to a joined up recruitment strategy and have a good manager.

 

[Dymak]

At no point have I said that. Your whole point is that our "support" is relatively poor. It can't be if the other teams' atmosphere is also non-existent. I'm afraid the atmospheres at all the stadiums I mentioned are considerably quieter than Goodison. A lot of fans of a lot of clubs seem to think their support is the worst when it comes to noise at their home stadiums. The reality is, they're all pretty quiet. City won 198 points in two seasons at the Etihad. The myth should be put to bed there.

You could hear a pin drop at Anfield at many moments during our derby games against them in recent years with the odd mutter of something about 1995 and then silence again, while at Goodison it's been an bear pit each time. And still we haven't won one, while they've usually pasted us at Anfield.

Because they are a better team thanks to a joined up recruitment strategy and have a good manager.

When we put in the effort, we have good atmospheres. I just think they are few and far between these days.

I don't agree that the atmospheres at other clubs are non-existent or considerably quieter than Goodison. I think Goodison is definitely one of the quieter grounds in the league. You can't get much quieter than silence.

 

[paulbefc]

When we put in the effort, we have good atmospheres. I just think they are few and far between these days.

I don't agree that the atmospheres at other clubs are non-existent or considerably quieter than Goodison. I think Goodison is definitely one of the quieter grounds in the league. You can't get much quieter than silence.

Go on other PL forums and you'll see the more negative amongst their fanbase saying exactly the same thing.

 

[Dymak]

Go on other PL forums and you'll see the more negative amongst their fanbase saying exactly the same thing.

I don't think that's true. I go on the forums of other clubs quite a lot.

 

[paulbefc]

I don't think that's true. I go on the forums of other clubs quite a lot.

One quick google. This lad seemed to get universal agreement by the looks of things. I don't know about you, but I definitely wouldn't call Everton a "tourist club". I know which clubs I would though.

 

[deipnosophist]

Everton does a fabulous blue Chrimbo...

 

[Furey1878]

Fans cost us the game today...........