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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 2

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Steve0 said:
Just had a look at KEita's stats and I've compared them to Sigurdsson, who's received a lot of stick this season, even (especially?) on this board.

Naby should be streets ahead....

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/243510/Show/Naby-Keita
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/243510/Show/Naby-Keita

Offensive stats:
-Naby is dispossessed more than twice as often as Siggy. Hmmm.

-Key passes are the same. PL is the tougher league so got to give that to the Icelander. Sorry.

-6 goals and 5 assists versus 4 goals and 3 assists in their leagues. Again once we take into account the PL is a superior league and Gylfi was coming back from an injury to a ramshackle side it's hardly a resounding victory for the Nabster. Might be tempted to even give that to Gylfi.

-Mis-control per game is the same overall. Again players get less time on the ball in England. A victory for Siggy.

So you see, Keita's stats see him lagging behind a player widely believed (wrongly as it happens like) to have flopped so I can't see what you're talking about.

Next year though, eh? ;)
Click to expand...
@ricky_ryder
 
James82 said:
@davek Klopp is that special manager though. At Dortmund he has history of performing above par and he's doing the same again with ourselves.

He's just got us into a CL final with a midfield consisting of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner.

All we can keep doing is getting ourselves in a position to challenge for the two big trophies and you would think we'll get over the line eventually. Over the last five years we've had two close calls in 2014 and now 2018. And now with hopefully Fekir coming in we'll have a midfield which will have us set to have another go again. It's hard to imagine with our front six how we won't be competing for one of the two big titles in the next few seasons.
Click to expand...
Look great on a banner that lad,log off and get the stencils out before @davek gets you in a judo arm lock
 
James82 said:
Salah will still hit 20 league goals. In fact with Keita and Fekir behind him, i do expect him to hit 25-30 goals.

Thing is with the added creativity in our '8' positions, Mane and Firmino will improve their goal output by quite a bit too. Firmino should end up with 20 with the new service behind him.

Not to forget the goals that will come out of Keita and Fekir. They should get 15-20 combined which will be a massive step up from the lack of goals we got out of Milner, Wijnaldum and Can in those positions.

It would be a massive failure if we didn't get 100 league goals.
Click to expand...
You speak as if all of that is somehow a given......news flash......it isn’t
 
Steve0 said:
Just had a look at KEita's stats and I've compared them to Sigurdsson, who's received a lot of stick this season, even (especially?) on this board.

Naby should be streets ahead....

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/243510/Show/Naby-Keita
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/243510/Show/Naby-Keita

Offensive stats:
-Naby is dispossessed more than twice as often as Siggy. Hmmm.

-Key passes are the same. PL is the tougher league so got to give that to the Icelander. Sorry.

-6 goals and 5 assists versus 4 goals and 3 assists in their leagues. Again once we take into account the PL is a superior league and Gylfi was coming back from an injury to a ramshackle side it's hardly a resounding victory for the Nabster. Might be tempted to even give that to Gylfi.

-Mis-control per game is the same overall. Again players get less time on the ball in England. A victory for Siggy.

So you see, Keita's stats see him lagging behind a player widely believed (wrongly as it happens like) to have flopped so I can't see what you're talking about.

Next year though, eh? ;)
Click to expand...

If anything the site proves my point. You're just picking a few stats to suit your argument but if you look at it in the grander scheme, Keita is in another sphere.

Going by that site he has a rating of 7.65 in an advanced midfield role (the position he will be playing for us). If this was Champ Manager (those were the days), with a rating like that i would be letting my interest be known. Sigurdsson with a rating of 6.88 which is a fair reflection.

Keita also ended up with a rating of 7.6 in the 16/17 season.

Looking at Fekir's rating for the season, it's at 7.86. Pretty incredible. As comparison, Salah had a rating of 7.48 at Roma.

I mean a site like that which uses advanced stats to compile a rating score has all of Fabiano, Keita and Fekir with one of the best scores in their respective positions in all of Europe.

Surely if you try your best to remove bias, you can agree that all the indicators are that they are all elite signings.
 

James82 said:
If anything the site proves my point. You're just picking a few stats to suit your argument but if you look at it in the grander scheme, Keita is in another sphere.

Going by that site he has a rating of 7.65 in an advanced midfield role (the position he will be playing for us). If this was Champ Manager (those were the days), with a rating like that i would be letting my interest be known. Sigurdsson with a rating of 6.88 which is a fair reflection.

Keita also ended up with a rating of 7.6 in the 16/17 season.

Looking at Fekir's rating for the season, it's at 7.86. Pretty incredible. As comparison, Salah had a rating of 7.48 at Roma.

I mean a site like that using advanced stats to compile a rating score has all of Fabiano, Keita and Fekir with one of the best scores in their respective positions in all of Europe.

Surely if you try your best to remove bias, you can agree that all the indicators are that they are all elite signings.
Click to expand...
Has Fekir signed yet?
 
Seathestars said:
Sounds like every pre-season when you all build your hopes up only for it to be your undoing. It’s this self entitlement that destroys any chance you’ve got.
Your fans get to your players, the pressure to win something is enormous and they crack.
You mentioned earlier that Klopp is a good Manager. He’s a one trick pony, a serial loser, but you lot buy into his fist pumping and and his behaviour also gets to the players.
He acted differently in the build up to the Madrid game, you lost that game before it even kicked off, because of Klopp and the expectation of your fans, if they can be called fans. Good Managers don’t lose 6 finals.
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See i don't get that. The last few pre-seasons there have been no shouts of us challenging for the title or CL. Might be a minority but for the majority, the expectations of our fanbase have been very realistic.

Visit any Liverpool forum asking for predictions, and you would see most hoping to consolidate top 4 and have a decent CL run.

This season the expectations might be different because truth be told, for the first time in a very long time, we seem to have a team stacked with some very good players.
 
James82 said:
If anything the site proves my point. You're just picking a few stats to suit your argument but if you look at it in the grander scheme, Keita is in another sphere.

Going by that site he has a rating of 7.65 in an advanced midfield role (the position he will be playing for us). If this was Champ Manager (those were the days), with a rating like that i would be letting my interest be known. Sigurdsson with a rating of 6.88 which is a fair reflection.

Keita also ended up with a rating of 7.6 in the 16/17 season.

Looking at Fekir's rating for the season, it's at 7.86. Pretty incredible. As comparison, Salah had a rating of 7.48 at Roma.

I mean a site like that which uses advanced stats to compile a rating score has all of Fabiano, Keita and Fekir with one of the best scores in their respective positions in all of Europe.

Surely if you try your best to remove bias, you can agree that all the indicators are that they are all elite signings.
Click to expand...
You’re comparing stats whilst ignoring completely the difference in league quality.
 

James82 said:
@davek Klopp is that special manager though. At Dortmund he has history of performing above par and he's doing the same again with ourselves.

He's just got us into a CL final with a midfield consisting of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner.

All we can keep doing is getting ourselves in a position to challenge for the two big trophies and you would think we'll get over the line eventually. Over the last five years we've had two close calls in 2014 and now 2018. And now with hopefully Fekir coming in we'll have a midfield which will have us set to have another go again. It's hard to imagine with our front six how we won't be competing for one of the two big titles in the next few seasons.
Click to expand...
We’ve had the Fab Four, what will you call your front six. The dirty half dozen?
Why don’t you add one and call them the magnificent 7,
Horrible club and horrible horrible fans.
Coming on here you beaut. Why don’t you talk about the City coach welcome or how your horrible fans keep bringing shame on my City.
 
James82 said:
If anything the site proves my point. You're just picking a few stats to suit your argument but if you look at it in the grander scheme, Keita is in another sphere.

Going by that site he has a rating of 7.65 in an advanced midfield role (the position he will be playing for us). If this was Champ Manager (those were the days), with a rating like that i would be letting my interest be known. Sigurdsson with a rating of 6.88 which is a fair reflection.

Keita also ended up with a rating of 7.6 in the 16/17 season.

Looking at Fekir's rating for the season, it's at 7.86. Pretty incredible. As comparison, Salah had a rating of 7.48 at Roma.

I mean a site like that which uses advanced stats to compile a rating score has all of Fabiano, Keita and Fekir with one of the best scores in their respective positions in all of Europe.

Surely if you try your best to remove bias, you can agree that all the indicators are that they are all elite signings.
Click to expand...

Right, so your 'advance stat metrics' basically mean the whoscored rating? lol
 
James82 said:
Salah will still hit 20 league goals. In fact with Keita and Fekir behind him, i do expect him to hit 25-30 goals.

Thing is with the added creativity in our '8' positions, Mane and Firmino will improve their goal output by quite a bit too. Firmino should end up with 20 with the new service behind him.

Not to forget the goals that will come out of Keita and Fekir. They should get 15-20 combined which will be a massive step up from the lack of goals we got out of Milner, Wijnaldum and Can in those positions.

It would be a massive failure if we didn't get 100 league goals.
Click to expand...


Be prepared for massive failure then my friend! The only thing missing from that little wish list is “next year will be our year”, and guess what we hear that every year from across Stanley Park!
 

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