ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 2

[Steve0]

It is a contract extension as he signed a 5 year contract last year. I don't think any Liverpool fans are "very, very worried" or even remotely so.

Your mental gymnastics re: LFC are wonderful. How you manage to put a negative spin on everything and convince yourself that Liverpool will be like Leeds in 2-3 years is truly Walter Mitty-esque!

Great reading though, especially given Everton's predicament the past few years....

If i supported a supposed world giant and they hadn't won a league title in three decades and just one league cup in 12 years then I'd be a little worried. At the very least I'd accept we weren't as big as I had been pretending.

 

[Borussin]

If i supported a supposed world giant and they hadn't won a league title in three decades and just one league cup in 12 years then I'd be a little worried. At the very least I'd accept we weren't as big as I had been pretending.

That's Liverpool fans problem, and something I think hampers them, is they live in the past so much. OK, I know all teams do it, goodness knows fans of my team do it too - harp back to winning stuff as a way to point to the size of the club etc. And remember former stars very fondly. And nothing wrong with that, it's part of history, it's work remembering.

But I've never seen a club who do it as much as Liverpool. And not just the fans - the actual club.
They put such an emphasis on past glories, giving a lot of focus on past stars, like before the CL final, all you saw was big names from the past yapping about it and harping back to by gone days. How does that help a club, other than add to the pressure?

They are actually in a good way now, with a coach who quite frankly could have gone to a bigger and better club than them at the time, but chose them. They are now making good signigns and spending money so much better than they did under Rodgers, Hodgson and Dalglish, where they spent so much money on really poor signings. Things seem to be going good for them.

But I can just imagine what will happen if they have a down turn at any point, yet again they will start hounding, cos that is what they do. They did it to Benitez, and they'll do it again. So many of them seem to have such a sense of entitlement. They seem to live in the past and not realise the league and football has moved on. They are no longer the top dogs, and won't be again this season. They cannot compete with the 2 Manchester clubs riches and depth of squads, or with clubs like PSG, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern. some of those clubs might not be as big name as them (PSG and City), but they are now much much bigger or richer clubs.

 

[catcherintherye]

It is a contract extension as he signed a 5 year contract last year. I don't think any Liverpool fans are "very, very worried" or even remotely so.

Your mental gymnastics re: LFC are wonderful. How you manage to put a negative spin on everything and convince yourself that Liverpool will be like Leeds in 2-3 years is truly Walter Mitty-esque!

Great reading though, especially given Everton's predicament the past few years....

It's a great signing for Liverpool. I can't say I'm massively bothered though and I would wager a fair bit of cash he will never hit those heights again. I remember saying as much to many reds re Daniel Sturridge, who would tell me how world class he was, better than Lukaku (Oh how I enjoyed that one, as apparently were Ings, Benteke and Origi ). Either way they seem to forget their stupidity, but I remember and have surprise surprise been proven completely right on Sturridge that the lad would never get 20 goals a season again.

My biggest concern re Salah was you would get a huge big for him and be able to utilise that money effectively. Clop seems to be doing that quite well, and buying players in the 40-80 million pound bracket pretty well at the moment and the opportunity to trade 2-3 lads in for 1 Salah would have worried me far more. I think Salah will continue to perform well, but he will never have this impact again in my opinion. It was a great time to sell.

I put all of this in a post well before he signed the new deal a couple of weeks back on this thread. So it's not being churlish after the event. All the time you continue to get CL football, momentum keeps building etc you will have disposable income, but if you have a bad season I could see it all going a bit Hicks and Gillette without the ability to be bailed out (and pass the clubs debt back onto an individual). A lot of ifs buts and maybe in there, but we will see.

 

[catcherintherye]

That's Liverpool fans problem, and something I think hampers them, is they live in the past so much. OK, I know all teams do it, goodness knows fans of my team do it too - harp back to winning stuff as a way to point to the size of the club etc. And remember former stars very fondly. And nothing wrong with that, it's part of history, it's work remembering.

But I've never seen a club who do it as much as Liverpool. And not just the fans - the actual club.
They put such an emphasis on past glories, giving a lot of focus on past stars, like before the CL final, all you saw was big names from the past yapping about it and harping back to by gone days. How does that help a club, other than add to the pressure?

They are actually in a good way now, with a coach who quite frankly could have gone to a bigger and better club than them at the time, but chose them. They are now making good signigns and spending money so much better than they did under Rodgers, Hodgson and Dalglish, where they spent so much money on really poor signings. Things seem to be going good for them.

But I can just imagine what will happen if they have a down turn at any point, yet again they will start hounding, cos that is what they do. They did it to Benitez, and they'll do it again. So many of them seem to have such a sense of entitlement. They seem to live in the past and not realise the league and football has moved on. They are no longer the top dogs, and won't be again this season. They cannot compete with the 2 Manchester clubs riches and depth of squads, or with clubs like PSG, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern. some of those clubs might not be as big name as them (PSG and City), but they are now much much bigger or richer clubs.

I think this is a really astute post to be fair. We are both big admirers of Klopp but he did have that awful final start to a season for you guys (after a world cup). Lets see if that can be avoided this year at Liverpool. IF Buvac goes I think it will be an enormous loss.

I remember well them turning on Benitez, who was completely hounded out of the club by their fans at the end (as was Houllier who had done a very good job with them). I see this situation is a bit similar to Hicks & Gilette now. They are spending substantial money but not as much as the very wealthiest but without the backing of a sugar daddy. Under H & G they paid big money but not as much as Chelsea, it's not similar but re City. That debt keeps growing, over 300 million now.

All the time Klopp stays, they keep getting into (and having decent runs in) the Champions League they can continue to spend £40 million + on signings. However one bad year and I could see it unravelling quite quickly as outstanding money owed on those fees would be more difficult to service.

They got lucky last time, that it was deemed the debt wracked up by Benitez's spending was allowed to be absconded from the club. Had it not have been it would have been administration for them and given the start to the season they had relegation would have remained a very viable option. They got lucky last time but it's unlikely they will be able to screw FSG in the same way who are a far more competent beast.

Much has been made of Everton's signings, but I count 1 player bought at 30 million or over. They currently have, VVD 75, Chamberlain 45, Keita 60, The lad from Monaco 45, Firmino 32, Mane 40, Salah 40, Lallana 26. Thats before we factor in spending on a goalkeeper (according to them could be 100 million on Oblak) and Fekir 55 million. Substantial investment, lets hope they don't mess it up like they did under Benitez, were 1 bad season saw it spiralling very quickly.

What I would give to see the situation that emerged at the end of H & G emerge again, but run to it's logical conclusion this time without the British Establishment cover up and support they got.

 

[Borussin]

I think this is a really astute post to be fair. We are both big admirers of Klopp but he did have that awful final start to a season for you guys (after a world cup). Lets see if that can be avoided this year at Liverpool. IF Buvac goes I think it will be an enormous loss.

I remember well them turning on Benitez, who was completely hounded out of the club by their fans at the end (as was Houllier who had done a very good job with them). I see this situation is a bit similar to Hicks & Gilette now. They are spending substantial money but not as much as the very wealthiest but without the backing of a sugar daddy. Under H & G they paid big money but not as much as Chelsea, it's not similar but re City. That debt keeps growing, over 300 million now.

All the time Klopp stays, they keep getting into (and having decent runs in) the Champions League they can continue to spend £40 million + on signings. However one bad year and I could see it unravelling quite quickly as outstanding money owed on those fees would be more difficult to service.

They got lucky last time, that it was deemed the debt wracked up by Benitez's spending was allowed to be absconded from the club. Had it not have been it would have been administration for them and given the start to the season they had relegation would have remained a very viable option. They got lucky last time but it's unlikely they will be able to screw FSG in the same way who are a far more competent beast.

Much has been made of Everton's signings, but I count 1 player bought at 30 million or over. They currently have, VVD 75, Chamberlain 45, Keita 60, The lad from Monaco 45, Firmino 32, Mane 40, Salah 40, Lallana 26. Thats before we factor in spending on a goalkeeper (according to them could be 100 million on Oblak) and Fekir 55 million. Substantial investment, lets hope they don't mess it up like they did under Benitez, were 1 bad season saw it spiralling very quickly.

What I would give to see the situation that emerged at the end of H & G emerge again, but run to it's logical conclusion this time without the British Establishment cover up and support they got.

Buvac isn't going back. He's left, not sure where he is going, the talk was he interviewed for a couple jobs, including Eintracht Frankfurt, and he lives near Frankfurt so that makes sense, but he didn't get them. But he's not going back to Liverpool. It will be a massive loss though, working with the same assistant for 17 years, how could it not be a massive loss.

I don't think the same thing will happen regards the world cup with Liverpool. The problem at Dortmund was partly that we had 6 players coming back from Germany squad - and of course they went to the final so these players din't come back till very late - and all coming down from the massive high and celebrations of course after winning it. As well as some other players too. Not sure how many players Liverpool have there now, but I would guess only ones who has chances to go really deep into the tournament are Firmino and the England playes they have, if you feel confident! Plus so many other factors combined in that half a sason for us before we got back on track, I won't go into again, but I can't see it being a problem. The loss of Buvac though - that can.

I don't know the state of their finances, I know they have more or less been working on a very close to 0 net spend since Kloppo went there, but this summer it looks like they don't need to sell to buy - although maybe you can factor the 140 million from Coutino too into what they do this summer. For me the big difference is they are now getting a better class of player in. with Rodgers, they wasted so much money on really average players, and seemed to go for quantity above quality, Now they go for quality above quanity. Not sure on goalies, not really read much about who is linked apart from Alisson Becker, but it looks like he might go to Real Madrid. But I really can't see them being able to throw fees ike 70 million at a goalie.

 

[Sarnia Kevin]

Henderson is rubbish though.

Funnily enough there's an awful lot of rs fans would agree with you there lollol

 

[Skamp]

lol @Skamp you seem confident you'll be able to keep a player who has played in a similar vein to Suarez, Coutinho etc, what makes you think he is different?

Please refrain from using the following terms

1. Project
2. Long Term
3. Gets the club

Go.

I'm not saying I'm confident of keeping him. Was just pointing out the futility of some on here suggesting that because he's signed a new contract, that he'll definitely be gone in a year. The same people would be creaming themselves if he refused to sign a contract, so what should he do lol?!!

If you can find one post where I've said any of the following terms, please point them out to to me: -

1. Project
2. Long Term
3. Gets the club

Go

 

[Skamp]

If i supported a supposed world giant and they hadn't won a league title in three decades and just one league cup in 12 years then I'd be a little worried. At the very least I'd accept we weren't as big as I had been pretending.

So now only "a little worried".....

 

[havrey0123]

115m o

I think this is a really astute post to be fair. We are both big admirers of Klopp but he did have that awful final start to a season for you guys (after a world cup). Lets see if that can be avoided this year at Liverpool. IF Buvac goes I think it will be an enormous loss.

I remember well them turning on Benitez, who was completely hounded out of the club by their fans at the end (as was Houllier who had done a very good job with them). I see this situation is a bit similar to Hicks & Gilette now. They are spending substantial money but not as much as the very wealthiest but without the backing of a sugar daddy. Under H & G they paid big money but not as much as Chelsea, it's not similar but re City. That debt keeps growing, over 300 million now.

All the time Klopp stays, they keep getting into (and having decent runs in) the Champions League they can continue to spend £40 million + on signings. However one bad year and I could see it unravelling quite quickly as outstanding money owed on those fees would be more difficult to service.

They got lucky last time, that it was deemed the debt wracked up by Benitez's spending was allowed to be absconded from the club. Had it not have been it would have been administration for them and given the start to the season they had relegation would have remained a very viable option. They got lucky last time but it's unlikely they will be able to screw FSG in the same way who are a far more competent beast.

Much has been made of Everton's signings, but I count 1 player bought at 30 million or over. They currently have, VVD 75, Chamberlain 45, Keita 60, The lad from Monaco 45, Firmino 32, Mane 40, Salah 40, Lallana 26. Thats before we factor in spending on a goalkeeper (according to them could be 100 million on Oblak) and Fekir 55 million. Substantial investment, lets hope they don't mess it up like they did under Benitez, were 1 bad season saw it spiralling very quickly.

What I would give to see the situation that emerged at the end of H & G emerge again, but run to it's logical conclusion this time without the British Establishment cover up and support they got.

It's about net spend tho, klopps net spend has been close to zero, before this transfer window.

You can afford to spend 80m on a player if you sell someone for 150m.
There just copying the business model set out by levy.

 

[Tin-Tin]

Lol he’s not going to suddenly magically flop ffs, he’s just had his fourth impressive season in a row. Saying hes likely to be a one season wonder is comical when there is no logic or evidence to suggest that will be the case.

He wont magically flop but there is no way he will have the season like he did last year, not a chance in hell.

Liverpool's fans must be the only ones who dread the "new long term contract" announcements for their best players.

 

[Skamp]

It's a great signing for Liverpool. I can't say I'm massively bothered though and I would wager a fair bit of cash he will never hit those heights again. I remember saying as much to many reds re Daniel Sturridge, who would tell me how world class he was, better than Lukaku (Oh how I enjoyed that one, as apparently were Ings, Benteke and Origi ). Either way they seem to forget their stupidity, but I remember and have surprise surprise been proven completely right on Sturridge that the lad would never get 20 goals a season again.

My biggest concern re Salah was you would get a huge big for him and be able to utilise that money effectively. Clop seems to be doing that quite well, and buying players in the 40-80 million pound bracket pretty well at the moment and the opportunity to trade 2-3 lads in for 1 Salah would have worried me far more. I think Salah will continue to perform well, but he will never have this impact again in my opinion. It was a great time to sell.

I put all of this in a post well before he signed the new deal a couple of weeks back on this thread. So it's not being churlish after the event. All the time you continue to get CL football, momentum keeps building etc you will have disposable income, but if you have a bad season I could see it all going a bit Hicks and Gillette without the ability to be bailed out (and pass the clubs debt back onto an individual). A lot of ifs buts and maybe in there, but we will see.

Ings, Benteke & Origi, I agree on. Sturridge, I believe could have been world class if he hadn't been made of glass! In all his time at Liverpool, I don't think he made 100 appearances in all comps, but still scored 60 odd goals. A top class strike-rate by most people's reckonings, so I could understand the fans going a bit OTT about how good he could have been.

Liverpool have recently all too often sold key players on; Salah has been there one season and been fantastic. If they'd sold him now, they'd have been vilified and the hysteria on this forum would've been through the roof. For some to have a go at them for not selling him as his stock MAY be at an all-time high, is clutching to say the least.

Only time will tell with Liverpool's finances, but again, if they don't spend big (Klopp has been operating pretty much on a sell-to-buy basis up to this summer) they're criticised for being small-time, and if they do invest, it's a case of "they'll be Leeds as soon as they finish 5th in the PL".

You can't have it all ways.

 

[Steve0]

Buvac isn't going back. He's left, not sure where he is going, the talk was he interviewed for a couple jobs, including Eintracht Frankfurt, and he lives near Frankfurt so that makes sense, but he didn't get them. But he's not going back to Liverpool. It will be a massive loss though, working with the same assistant for 17 years, how could it not be a massive loss.

I don't think the same thing will happen regards the world cup with Liverpool. The problem at Dortmund was partly that we had 6 players coming back from Germany squad - and of course they went to the final so these players din't come back till very late - and all coming down from the massive high and celebrations of course after winning it. As well as some other players too. Not sure how many players Liverpool have there now, but I would guess only ones who has chances to go really deep into the tournament are Firmino and the England playes they have, if you feel confident! Plus so many other factors combined in that half a sason for us before we got back on track, I won't go into again, but I can't see it being a problem. The loss of Buvac though - that can.

I don't know the state of their finances, I know they have more or less been working on a very close to 0 net spend since Kloppo went there, but this summer it looks like they don't need to sell to buy - although maybe you can factor the 140 million from Coutino too into what they do this summer. For me the big difference is they are now getting a better class of player in. with Rodgers, they wasted so much money on really average players, and seemed to go for quantity above quality, Now they go for quality above quanity. Not sure on goalies, not really read much about who is linked apart from Alisson Becker, but it looks like he might go to Real Madrid. But I really can't see them being able to throw fees ike 70 million at a goalie.

Not sure about this better quality claim.

Karius, Klavan, VVD average but not worth the money, Wijnaldum etc

Salah had a good season but will never repeat it.

Keita will be exposed massively, simply isn't very good quite frankly. Fabinho, no idea really but behind Paulinho in the Brazil hierarchy and Paulie struggled over here.
Think we could Klopp have a meltdown next year. Worrying signs.

 

[Sarnia Kevin]

Sturridge, I believe could have been world class if he hadn't been made of glass! In all his time at Liverpool, I don't think he made 100 appearances in all comps, but still scored 60 odd goals.

48 goals in 98 appearances actually. But he does have a ward in the Royal Liverpool Hospital named after him

 

[summerisle]

 

[goodisonopheliac]

Re Salah, does actual English player Harry Kane get this amount of tonguebathing too?