ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 2

[Skamp]

Not sure about this better quality claim.

Karius, Klavan, VVD average but not worth the money, Wijnaldum etc

Salah had a good season but will never repeat it.

Keita will be exposed massively, simply isn't very good quite frankly. Fabinho, no idea really but behind Paulinho in the Brazil hierarchy and Paulie struggled over here.
Think we could Klopp have a meltdown next year. Worrying signs.

Lol Here we go again with the attempts to convince yourself how worried Liverpool fans should be. Out of interest, how worried are you as an Everton fan? Very, very, very?

If you're right about Keita, I'd be very surprised.

 

[scotchbutterpin]

Steve0 is defo a red on the wind up. He knows more about them than anyone else I know.

 

[Steve0]

I would say there is a big difference in quality. Van Dijk may have cost a fortune, but he is absoluteley top class defender, at least they paid for quality, unlike in the past. Salah, Mane, Keita, Fabinho, Robertson, Wijnaldum, again, they get what they pay for, quality additions. When you buy players, you surely look first to improve on what you have, they seem to be doing that a lot more now. And Fabinho and Keita are big upgrade on players like Henderson, Milner and Can, so again improve on what they had. From signing like Markovich, Moreno, Mignolet, Sakho, Balotelli and Benkete to this, is quite a difference, I think so anyway. And that is what we as fans all ask of our teams I think, to improve on what we have.

Keita is a real talent only just beginning, we will agree to disagree on him I guess! I am glad he didn't sign for another team not called Dortmund in Germany put it that way. He is an unique player who can become a great player.

So indeed, we might have to agree to disagee on the better quality additions Steve!

Massively bold claim to say Keita and Fabinho are upgrades on Henderson and Milner. Neither is an upgrade on Can though. And either are anywhere near Coutinho.
Their midfield is actually weaker than it was at this time last year, especially as Milner is now a year older as well.

That's hindsight with the second list (markovic etc) Look at their forums, they were all lauded, the milky bar kid practically wet himself when they signed Balotelli, for example.

VVD is the most expensive defender in the world....let that sink in. The mind boggles.

 

[RobC]

"We" get them from the published financial results.
Can you imagine how their fanbase would deal with a Leeds style relegation? There would be "free Tommy" style vandalism and marches across the home counties. It would be a glorious social experiment.

You and I both know there is not a chance of this yet it gets repeated on here as some sort of inevitable fact.

 

[Steve0]

Where are people pulling 300m from.
115m of that came from fsg as loan to Liverpool for the new stand interest free, similar to how moshiri gave and interest free loan to Everton.
The new stand takes in 15m a season (with cl football), in 8 seasons it pays off it self.
They have an additional 75m to spend this season to getting to the cl final. Hence fabiniho and Keita signings.

Expect them to raise around 60m selling players like sturridge, markovich, lallana karius, mignolet, clyne, gets around 450k a week off the books which raises funds for a fekir type player.

That leaves a keeper to buy which will be from their own pocket, they will probably use next seasons cl money as collateral for that.

It's not rocket science to see what there doing and how they are doing it. And no I'm not a kopite but comparing them to Leeds when there net spend since klopp has been there before this transfer window is zero is ridiculous.

The problem you have is that nobody is going to want those players given they're all on insane money. £450k a week? They're worth about half that. You won't be able to give Sturridge away, nobody wants Markovic, Karius is shot, Clyne has issues, Lallana is old and injury prone....it's a very worrying time for Liverpool FC, the squad hasn't been managed well at all.

FSG seem a bit clueless to me, I'm sorry to say.

 

[Steve0]

Steve0 is defo a red on the wind up. He knows more about them than anyone else I know.

But if i was a red winding up blues I wouldn't be making reds sign up on here it a fit of pique....just saying.

 

[Jacob]

Lol Here we go again with the attempts to convince yourself how worried Liverpool fans should be. Out of interest, how worried are you as an Everton fan? Very, very, very?

If you're right about Keita, I'd be very surprised.

Out of interest, what should we be worried about given that the new regime has yet to bed in ?

 

[KaiserEFC]

A lot of this thread is pretty embarrassing if I’m honest.

 

[catcherintherye]

Fair points and I wouldn't argue with most of them, though the "Coutinho greatly distorts the figures" line often thrown about irks me a little. Point is, if Liverpool hadn't sold Coutinho for such a hefty sum, they'd have been unlikely to have bought VVD, Ox and maybe one other. If you lose a £140m player, you have to replace with like or a cople of strong players to keep the squad in a similar state.

People like to cite the money Liverpool have spent, but as you've said, in recent years, compared to the majority of PL clubs, it's been very low.

I'd be amazed if we did spend that big on a top keeper, but it's something Liverpool need to do, as there hasn't been a (close to) top keeper at Anfield since Reina and then back to probably Grobbelaar (for those of us who rated him) prior to that.

There's been some intent with the signings coming in this summer, but what i will say is, love or loathe Klopp, his transfer dealings so far have been largely exceptional, as virtually every play he's bought the last 2 years have become pretty much regular first-teamers and most have appreciated in value.

Will be interesting to see who else is signed and with maybe 2 more key signings, think Liverpool will be tough to beat next season.

Time will tell......

I only mention the Coutinho issue as most reds I see say that the money for Keita/Van Dijk was in place irrespective of Coutinho going. Like you I can't have that but do agree if you sell a lad for 100+ million you deserve credit for that.

I am not sure the money Liverpool have spent is low. Over the years you have largely been in the top 5 and often 3/4/5 times more than lots of other teams who may have been in the top half. I can never get my head around the idea of Liverpool as plucky underdogs. The money you spend is substantial, but ultimately you are in a league where there are 4 other teams who do the same so it's not as easy to buy trophies in the way they do.

There was a brief interlude with Klopp where the spending was reigned back as it's not really his style but that looks to be reversed now and I do think the last 12 months have seen a significant shifting of the gears. In the last 12 months I count 5 lads who have been bought for upwards of 40 million, with a deal close for Fekir at well over 50 million and a goalkeeper in that ballpark to come it is a significant shift which only a handful of teams in Europe never mind England can compete with. Having packed his team out with lads who will be beyond the transfer record of most of the the teams in the league, it's hard to see Klopp being able to justify no trophies won in his 4th year.

I agree Klopp has bought well. He has a good quality that he makes absolutely certain on a player before signing them and doesn't compromise, in truth choosing to wait rather than bring another in. He has adopted a patient approach. As I've suggested above though, there are moments in all walks of life, as well as football where you feel you deliver or the moment passes and people become cynical.

The issue Klopp has I think is with the minutae of events and getting over the line. He has a squad capable of finishing 2nd but finds a way to finish 4th with them. This season I'd suggest he needs to produce not just a side that is attractive on the eye, but one that gets over the line or it may go the way it did for Newcastle in the 90's.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

It's embarrassing how many Blues accuse other members of this forum of being RS. I have thousands of posts, 99.9% of which are about Everton and clearly display a passion for Everton, yet have had some clueless bells accuse me of "obviously" being a RS in disguise. I think some fellas here get some sort of kick out of accusing others. Why would anybody waste their own time pretending to be an Everton fan if they aren't one? Doesn't really make any sense to me.

Everybody hates Liverpool, that is one thing we should all be in agreement with.

 

[Khalekan]

Shaqiri nailed on according to the bookies, 2/7.

Waits for the genius shouts to start. Ronaldo and Messi beware, there's a new kid in town.

Shaquiri woukd be ideal for them.

They need an irritating goal celebration to replace Sturridge and Salah when he goes.

 

[Khalekan]

Very worrying.

Indeed.

I am losing sleep worrying over their financial wellbeing

 

[havrey0123]

The problem you have is that nobody is going to want those players given they're all on insane money. £450k a week? They're worth about half that. You won't be able to give Sturridge away, nobody wants Markovic, Karius is shot, Clyne has issues, Lallana is old and injury prone....it's a very worrying time for Liverpool FC, the squad hasn't been managed well at all.

FSG seem a bit clueless to me, I'm sorry to say.

But if they want first team football and to stay in the international teams they will. It's very rare players stay and play in the reserves just to keep the money.

Sturridge went to west Bromwich for 6 months ago wages fully paid and they paid 2 million loan fee.
Clyne still has a decent shot at being Englands number 1 RB, he was injured this season yes, but he is now fit and only 27.
Karius and mignolet will still go for a combined 10m.
Lallana if put on the market at 15m would be snapped up.
How can you say their squad hasn't been managed well when their net spend over the last 3 seasons is zero.

They sold Jordan ibe for 15m ffs, that marcus Stewart went for 8 million
They get money for their players, even the really **** ones. I'm pretty sure someone actually paid money for Rickie Lambert too.

Your basing your figures on debt on accounts 2 seasons ago. 115m of that is a loan from fsg to Liverpool, that will pay itself off.

 

[havrey0123]

I only mention the Coutinho issue as most reds I see say that the money for Keita/Van Dijk was in place irrespective of Coutinho going. Like you I can't have that but do agree if you sell a lad for 100+ million you deserve credit for that.

I am not sure the money Liverpool have spent is low. Over the years you have largely been in the top 5 and often 3/4/5 times more than lots of other teams who may have been in the top half. I can never get my head around the idea of Liverpool as plucky underdogs. The money you spend is substantial, but ultimately you are in a league where there are 4 other teams who do the same so it's not as easy to buy trophies in the way they do.

There was a brief interlude with Klopp where the spending was reigned back as it's not really his style but that looks to be reversed now and I do think the last 12 months have seen a significant shifting of the gears. In the last 12 months I count 5 lads who have been bought for upwards of 40 million, with a deal close for Fekir at well over 50 million and a goalkeeper in that ballpark to come it is a significant shift which only a handful of teams in Europe never mind England can compete with. Having packed his team out with lads who will be beyond the transfer record of most of the the teams in the league, it's hard to see Klopp being able to justify no trophies won in his 4th year.

I agree Klopp has bought well. He has a good quality that he makes absolutely certain on a player before signing them and doesn't compromise, in truth choosing to wait rather than bring another in. He has adopted a patient approach. As I've suggested above though, there are moments in all walks of life, as well as football where you feel you deliver or the moment passes and people become cynical.

The issue Klopp has I think is with the minutae of events and getting over the line. He has a squad capable of finishing 2nd but finds a way to finish 4th with them. This season I'd suggest he needs to produce not just a side that is attractive on the eye, but one that gets over the line or it may go the way it did for Newcastle in the 90's.

They haven't spent any of their own money, while it may look to everyone like they are spending big, it's money from player sales or cl money. Fsg haven't spent a penny of their own money on players in over 3 years.

 

[Steve0]

But if they want first team football and to stay in the international teams they will. It's very rare players stay and play in the reserves just to keep the money.

Sturridge went to west Bromwich for 6 months ago wages fully paid and they paid 2 million loan fee.
Clyne still has a decent shot at being Englands number 1 RB, he was injured this season yes, but he is now fit and only 27.
Karius and mignolet will still go for a combined 10m.
Lallana if put on the market at 15m would be snapped up.
How can you say their squad hasn't been managed well when their net spend over the last 3 seasons is zero.

Your basing your figures on accounts 2 seasons ago.

But the Sturridge got injured in his first game, nobody is going to want him now. He's there and will leave on a free.

Lallana is on £110,000 a week....who is going to pay that? He's on that for another THREE seasons. No way he's going to accept a pay cut with that much left on his contract.

KArius and Mignolet might go for that...then you're left with no goalie lol.

Clyne's issues are apparently not just his injuries. If you believe that sort of thing.

Because that's cosmetic, they have already lost two players on frees with a dozen or so to follow. All have to be replaced. You're looking at the past (like most Liverpool fans )
The reason it hasn't been managed well is what's to come in the future.

Tick tock.