ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 2

[peteblue]

I remember wanting Houllier out by the end, and it was less about him only securing 4th, and more about the fact that the football had become quite turgid and that we needed a change. Any manager that fails to win and falls further from being likely to win the league comes under pressure at Liverpool (as is now the case at United, Chelsea and I expect Arsenal, too) but extra weight is added if the football isn’t good.

Klopp right now gets extra good will because a) he’s following on from a throughly awful last season under Rodgers, b) he has reinstilled a feel good factor playing exciting football, and c) has generally signed quality players.

But you’re right, he’s under pressure to win something, and the more he spends the more scrutiny he will face.

But on the money bit, you can’t highlight the total amount spend as a stick to beat us with, and highlight the departure of key players who have left “to win things” as a separate one.

We’ve spent a lot of money, but until this window we’ve also received big money at the cost of losing good players.

There’s always the chance we’ll sell a star this window, but for once it doesn’t feel too likely, but it could happen, obviously.

If suddenly we sold salah for £150m, the fans will be less happy and optimistic than now, but by default the pressure on klopp eases slightly too.

Everything is tye sum of all the parts, and those parts are often moving with us.

On Alisson, I’m concerned about spending that much on a keeper, and haven’t seen enough of him to know if he’s anywhere near worth it. (Obviously accounting for the fact that none of them are bloody worth that much)

As for the rest of it, o can’t speak for other fans that I don’t know, but the vast majority I know online, and all the ones I know in real life, are not the sewer rats you describe. They’re normal blokes and girls, just like you.

Good post....

 

[brigadier]

-28m spend last Season.

Currently they have spent :

67m Boris Becker
43m Fabinho
62m Kieta
13m Hobbit

185m

'The day that this is football, I'm not in a job anymore, because the game is about playing together.

'That is how everybody in football understands it. You always want to have the best, but building the group is necessary to be successful.

'Other clubs can go out and spend more money and collect top players.

'I want to do it differently. I would even do it differently if I could spend that money.

Klopp 2016

The man aspires to be Brendan Rogers.
He's sign of hope to them but a figure of fun to normal people.
The day he overtakes Rogers in talking nonsense is the day he should have his own sitcom.

 

[RedNotLikelyToPost]

He's always come across as an entitled scumbag whenever I've seen him interviewed.

Do you think? I hadn't really seen him in interviews before he joined us, so was kind of expecting him to (most modern english players do) but have really been surprised at how down to earth and normal he seems.

 

[RedNotLikelyToPost]

They scored just under 60 mate. Salah had a miracle season. They will need more than the 15 they get from Firmino. Lets have a guess, who scores more out of Firmino, Aguero, Lukaku & Kane. Rank those 4.

Firmino scored 26 in all comps, and while he'll not score as many as Kane, Aguero or Lukaku almost certainly, he will without doubt end up with more assists, which is what helped Salah score 43, and Mane score 20 (88 total, nearer 100 than 60).

The issue is not about whether Firmino is a top striker, or whether Salah will repeat his goal tally from last year (though I don't expect a massive drop off, staying at that level is unlikely), it's about whether they can go through the season without significant injury again (unlikely) and how much improved the supporting cast is than a never fit Sturridge, Ings and Solanke.

So far, the addition of Shakiri helps, but not if we lose one for a long time, and hopefully Keita will chip in more than Can, Wijnaldum or Chamberlain did.

We're still miles behind City, and they are not going to go backwards, so I dont expect we can win the league, but theres no way we're markedly worse, and where we've improved is where we most needed to - assuming they are in fact improvements, which is always a wait and see game.

 

[Tubey]

-28m spend last Season.

Currently they have spent :

67m Boris Becker
43m Fabinho
62m Kieta
13m Hobbit

185m

'The day that this is football, I'm not in a job anymore, because the game is about playing together.

'That is how everybody in football understands it. You always want to have the best, but building the group is necessary to be successful.

'Other clubs can go out and spend more money and collect top players.

'I want to do it differently. I would even do it differently if I could spend that money.

Klopp 2016

They know they lose Salah next year, probably for close to £200m. So they're going all out on trying to win something now.

It make sense tbh.

 

[WA Toffee]

Whether or not the players they have brought in will improve them, and you would expect that the most expensive defender in the world, the most expensive goalie in the world and a new midfield duo costing almost 100 m quid certainly should improve them, their main weakness still lies in their all energy high pressing style of play. With a long European cup run, followed by the world cup, a lot of their players will start the season knackered. By the busy Christmas period they will be dead on their feet. Can Klopp manage his squad and change his tactics so that they will last the whole season? I don’t think so. They will be lucky to finish top 4

 

[RedNotLikelyToPost]

Mostly last century though...awkward!

Think before you type you big dafty, just told you that.

Next you'll be saying the Scotch league is good cos Dalgliesh, Souness and Sharp were bought from there. Times change unfortunately.

French league is renowned for producing modern day flops. Sorry if this is painful for you, you'll just have to accept it.

And yet you reference Martial in your talking up of United. You flip flop more than Philippe Felope.

But seriously, that Man United team shout be great. It's cost enough (I'll set it up, you knock it in). But would you say that Mourinho has helped the development of Martial, who looked incredible when he first arrived? Would you say he has got the best out of Pogba? Sanchez didnt set the world alight last year, though we know he can do it in this league, obviously; and Fred, why is he any less of a risk that Keita or Fabinho? Are we overrun by incredible success stories arriving from the Ukranian League here?

EDIT: It wasnt you saying those things, it was Domingo, but the point stands, generally speaking.

 

[RedNotLikelyToPost]

How the hell does your lot get that kind of money for a nobody ???

He hasn't thrown the ball in the back of his own net for us, so compared to our other lot he must be decent!!

 

[RedNotLikelyToPost]

Whether or not the players they have brought in will improve them, and you would expect that the most expensive defender in the world, the most expensive goalie in the world and a new midfield duo costing almost 100 m quid certainly should improve them, their main weakness still lies in their all energy high pressing style of play. With a long European cup run, followed by the world cup, a lot of their players will start the season knackered. By the busy Christmas period they will be dead on their feet. Can Klopp manage his squad and change his tactics so that they will last the whole season? I don’t think so. They will be lucky to finish top 4

I think the last bit is your hope coming through, but the rest of the post are very fair questions.

 

[Steve0]

And yet you reference Martial in your talking up of United. You flip flop more than Philippe Felope.

But seriously, that Man United team shout be great. It's cost enough (I'll set it up, you knock it in). But would you say that Mourinho has helped the development of Martial, who looked incredible when he first arrived? Would you say he has got the best out of Pogba? Sanchez didnt set the world alight last year, though we know he can do it in this league, obviously; and Fred, why is he any less of a risk that Keita or Fabinho? Are we overrun by incredible success stories arriving from the Ukranian League here?

EDIT: It wasnt you saying those things, it was Domingo, but the point stands, generally speaking.

Mourinho possibly stifled Martial's development or it could just be that he came from a poor league and looked better than he actually was. Forgot about him, adds fuel to my flop league theory, thank you for reminding me.

Fred = big risk imo btw fwiw.

 

[WA Toffee]

I think the last bit is your hope coming through, but the rest of the post are very fair questions.

Yep, may be my blue tinted glasses, but I really haven’t seen anything from Klopp to suggest that he has an effective plan B. Have you seen anything from him to suggest otherwise? Knackered players and a high energy game is not a good combination.
And on another point, with his assistant leaving at the end of last season, will that have much of an effect? A lot of people (not just Evertonians) have suggested that he was the real brains behind him. Do you know enough about him to think he is a major loss or not?

 

[RedNotLikelyToPost]

Yep, may be my blue tinted glasses, but I really haven’t seen anything from Klopp to suggest that he has an effective plan B. Have you seen anything from him to suggest otherwise? Knackered players and a high energy game is not a good combination.
And on another point, with his assistant leaving at the end of last season, will that have much of an effect? A lot of people (not just Evertonians) have suggested that he was the real brains behind him. Do you know enough about him to think he is a major loss or not?

Frankly, I have no idea at all. I'm pleased that we brought someone back into the fold that Klopp has already worked with in Ljinders, but how can any of us know anything about that? I remember Benitez losing Pako Ayesteran and his team was never quite the same, so it could be a problem.

As I say, I think all of your questions/points are potentially valid, but I dont see us outside the Top 4 unless we lose one of Firmino or Salah for a long stretch, personally. Our lads will be no more tired than those of other top clubs, and while our style of play is more intense than City (possession based) and United (agricultural) it's not too much different to Spurs. I dont know what kind of football Emery will play at Arsenal, or Serri at Chelsea though.

 

[Kurt.]

We bought awful and it was one of the worst splurges in the history of the PL,Walsh should be arrested for wasting so much money so haphazardly.

The RS already had a half decent side that finished top 4 twice and got to 3 cup finals,now they have improved their spine significantly,that team should be winning trophies now.

So if they win nothing again this season should Klopp be sacked ? He’s been heavily backed by the owners now, surely he has to win something soon.

 

[Kurt.]

Kopites everywhere in this thread... they have to infest everywhere trying to remain relevant.... rats

 

[RedNotLikelyToPost]

So if they win nothing again this season should Klopp be sacked ? He’s been heavily backed by the owners now, surely he has to win something soon.

It depends how close he comes; how good the football is; how his signings work out and what mitigating factors come into play.

If he comes second in the league on goal difference, Keita is PFA player of the year, Allison wins the Golden Gloves and we have good runs in one or two of the cups, is that a poor season? No chance.

There aren't many liverpool fans thinking about wanting rid of Klopp right now. And you only have to think about Rodgers last season with us to appreciate what he's already done for us. Think a little harder to Hodgson, and it's an even better light.

If we fall away badly, miss out on top 4, slump out of the cups, and Alisson is a £66m dud, then there'll be dissenting voices.

Right now, Evertonians seem to be the ones talking about Klopp being under pressure, and having to win trophies, and possibly being sacked. Not Kopites. That says a lot.