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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

DrEFC said:
"Ref's performance summed up in the last 30 seconds. Allowing an Everton free kick for offside to be taken 4 yards inside our half.

We didn't deserve anything, but we didn't deserve to lose either. We're cack but Everton are atrocious."
"56 Mo is brought down on the edge of the box by Digne, arm clearly around him, but no FK."
"80 Penalty Everton. Ref says that Trent tugged down Calvert Lewin. It’s a joke decision, hasn’t touched him"
"Go back to the Salah incident when there was a clear hand on him, then this get's given. The ref's judge our games totally different to everyone else's."
"81 2-0. It’s cheating essentially. VAR told the ref to go and look, he went and didn’t even look at the evidence. How much longer Jurgen is willing to accept these farcical decisions is beyond me. It’s an absolute embarrassment for officiating in this country. We’ve had some awful decisions go against us this season, but that might be the absolute worst. It’s a scandal.
88 Sadio down but nothing given. Not enough contact for a penalty, but it doesn’t seem to matter anymore.
FT 0-2. Two things we already knew have played out today; 1. Something isn’t right in our squad at the moment. 2. Crooked officiating against us isn’t being hidden, it’s in fact being encouraged."


Some crackers by those deluded clowns on rawk.
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So getting dragged down isn’t a pen but a hand on the shoulder is?
Tbf to the RS for the last 3 years they got them pens so they think it’s a pen and only that’s a pen. A player actually touching another play with force iscleary not a pen... baffling the lot of them
 
davek said:
www.mirror.co.uk

Klopp 'twice as likely to leave Liverpool' as fresh Anfield quit claims emerge

Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp's future at Anfield has been called into question in recent weeks, and now new claims from Germany suggest he could return home in 2022
www.mirror.co.uk www.mirror.co.uk

Disaster.
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This is a massively telling story too, that big outlets are running this stuff fairly openly now. I didn't readit all, but this line right at the start got me.

"Did I get the sack or did I leave by myself? I don't need a break,"

Who is bringing the need for a break into the discussion? Why is he referencing the sack, or counterposing that with leaing himself.

If I was analysing this, I would say he has the sack on his mind, but is likely to leave before that came, and thus give himself a break. Generally people who don't want or need a break, don't inject it into a conversation where it doesn't fit.

As for the subtext, when they were flying earier this season, the Bild and the top German sports journo (plus Fjortoft who's well connected) said he's leaving at the end of next season. It fits in with the German job, which would be a natural fit. He always seems quite German to me and probably misses home.

What I can get from this though, is he may well bring those plans forward. Looks quite likely to me that he could just jib next year off and have a sabbatical, open a back door chat with the German FA in the process and re charge (which is pretty much what he did with Liverpool). He seems a very intense person and probably does need to re-charge every so often.

That now seems the likeliest scenario to me. Why would you stick around for another year of transition (at best) or further decline (at worst) with a team who are probably going to be 30+ behind the title winners and have to sell players in the summers following to break even?

I don't think anything I've out above would come as any surprise. Here's the hunch though, he could end up leaving before the season is out. That rumour that emerged from Kopites that he'd resigned after the City game, the odds collapsed on him being the next manager to leave, then were suspended etc. This all sounds to me like a manager who may have offered his resignation but was walked out of it. That's how it all sounds to me.

The issue he has, is if it's over the next few weeks, end of the season or 2022, the plyers know he's gone, and are not going to go the extra mile for him and put themselves on the line. If it's known he wants out, it will become quite clear that it is probably best he goes as people will just coast (including probably him). I suspect a trigger point may be if/when they get knocked out of the European cup.

Thats just my reading of it though. In honesty, I'm beyond caring now. He's got to the ame point Houllier got to with them, where you could see a good manager was never going to take them any further. Houllier ended up dragging them backwards and they took about 8 years and massive money to get near a title challenge after his initial decline came. Klopp, in his mindset will only cause further damage if he stays now.
 
It’s their sense of immediate entitlement after winning one league that’s baffling to me. They can’t grasp that Klopp’s model isn’t maintainable and they really thought they’d dominate for years.

The truth is, they did a Leicester. A team that never won the league before got a bit of luck and found a formula that made them absolutely formidable for a season and a half in Leicester’s case (as they also had a great record that kept them up the season before Ranieri) and two seasons in Klopp’s case (as they won both the best ever loser trophy and the asterisk trophy remember). I know a Leicester fan really well at work and he didn’t care the season after winning the league that they were a bit rubbish, he was just buzzing off that great year.

By the time the kopites get their parade Jurgen promised them (LOL) they won’t care anymore because they’re all me me me now now now.
 

catcherintherye said:
This is a massively telling story too, that big outlets are running this stuff fairly openly now. I didn't readit all, but this line right at the start got me.

"Did I get the sack or did I leave by myself? I don't need a break,"

Who is bringing the need for a break into the discussion? Why is he referencing the sack, or counterposing that with leaing himself.

If I was analysing this, I would say he has the sack on his mind, but is likely to leave before that came, and thus give himself a break. Generally people who don't want or need a break, don't inject it into a conversation where it doesn't fit.

As for the subtext, when they were flying earier this season, the Bild and the top German sports journo (plus Fjortoft who's well connected) said he's leaving at the end of next season. It fits in with the German job, which would be a natural fit. He always seems quite German to me and probably misses home.

What I can get from this though, is he may well bring those plans forward. Looks quite likely to me that he could just jib next year off and have a sabbatical, open a back door chat with the German FA in the process and re charge (which is pretty much what he did with Liverpool). He seems a very intense person and probably does need to re-charge every so often.

That now seems the likeliest scenario to me. Why would you stick around for another year of transition (at best) or further decline (at worst) with a team who are probably going to be 30+ behind the title winners and have to sell players in the summers following to break even?

I don't think anything I've out above would come as any surprise. Here's the hunch though, he could end up leaving before the season is out. That rumour that emerged from Kopites that he'd resigned after the City game, the odds collapsed on him being the next manager to leave, then were suspended etc. This all sounds to me like a manager who may have offered his resignation but was walked out of it. That's how it all sounds to me.

The issue he has, is if it's over the next few weeks, end of the season or 2022, the plyers know he's gone, and are not going to go the extra mile for him and put themselves on the line. If it's known he wants out, it will become quite clear that it is probably best he goes as people will just coast (including probably him). I suspect a trigger point may be if/when they get knocked out of the European cup.

Thats just my reading of it though. In honesty, I'm beyond caring now. He's got to the ame point Houllier got to with them, where you could see a good manager was never going to take them any further. Houllier ended up dragging them backwards and they took about 8 years and massive money to get near a title challenge after his initial decline came. Klopp, in his mindset will only cause further damage if he stays now.
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He'd be relieved to be sacked right now. As you say, a rebuild looks like madness if he has a job elsewhere in mind.

Five seasons in England and a very decent trophy haul: he can be satisfied with that. Sticking around will tarnish his achievement.

The planets may be aligning for Gerrard.
 
number4. said:
I think the use of senior is probably a bit of a stretch - Williams has shown he is a child, he might be good in three years time, but he is no where near a level, although he looks decent with the ball at his feet

What I struggle to get is your man phillips, he is a simple centre half, who has done very little wrong for them - I honestly think if he was signed for 20m, they would be excited beyond belief about him
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The thing is though mate, Williams is now 20. He's 6 ft 4 so physically able to play. I mean if he's not going to play now, when if he going to play? We gave Stones a debut at 18, Brainthwaite a debut earlier this season at 17, Holgate at 19 I believe. I can have that he's not good enough, but he's more than old enough to be playing, They carry on like him and Phillips are under 18's which is just not the case. Even that Billy kid they all rave about (who got ragged by a 16 year old from United for 7 goals recently in a reserves match) is 19. If he's not going to play now, then when?

Phillips it's even more a case. I mean he's not great, and will probably be best described as a championship type centre half (reminds me a bit Peter Clarke who we had a few years back). Honest, good in the air but very slow and not comfortable on the ball. But you think, he's 24 or whatever, surely you just get Henderson back into midfield, and probably Fabinho and limit the contagian.

The lad they signed from Preston who they ludicrously said was a leading defender in the championship (he's not, he's bang average in the championship) but again is a CB. Why sign him if he's just going to sit on the bench?

I also think, and keep saying it, he should have rotated more in the CL. Once he won at Ajax, really weaken his sides and give rest and rotation, but he didn't do that. It was pointless. I think now they have to decide to prioritise either the CL or the PL, as the squad will buckle playing in both. Play Origi, Shaqiri ever week in 1, and rest the precious front 3 a bit more. That would be the smart move.
 
catcherintherye said:
This is a massively telling story too, that big outlets are running this stuff fairly openly now. I didn't readit all, but this line right at the start got me.

"Did I get the sack or did I leave by myself? I don't need a break,"

Who is bringing the need for a break into the discussion? Why is he referencing the sack, or counterposing that with leaing himself.

If I was analysing this, I would say he has the sack on his mind, but is likely to leave before that came, and thus give himself a break. Generally people who don't want or need a break, don't inject it into a conversation where it doesn't fit.

As for the subtext, when they were flying earier this season, the Bild and the top German sports journo (plus Fjortoft who's well connected) said he's leaving at the end of next season. It fits in with the German job, which would be a natural fit. He always seems quite German to me and probably misses home.

What I can get from this though, is he may well bring those plans forward. Looks quite likely to me that he could just jib next year off and have a sabbatical, open a back door chat with the German FA in the process and re charge (which is pretty much what he did with Liverpool). He seems a very intense person and probably does need to re-charge every so often.

That now seems the likeliest scenario to me. Why would you stick around for another year of transition (at best) or further decline (at worst) with a team who are probably going to be 30+ behind the title winners and have to sell players in the summers following to break even?

I don't think anything I've out above would come as any surprise. Here's the hunch though, he could end up leaving before the season is out. That rumour that emerged from Kopites that he'd resigned after the City game, the odds collapsed on him being the next manager to leave, then were suspended etc. This all sounds to me like a manager who may have offered his resignation but was walked out of it. That's how it all sounds to me.

The issue he has, is if it's over the next few weeks, end of the season or 2022, the plyers know he's gone, and are not going to go the extra mile for him and put themselves on the line. If it's known he wants out, it will become quite clear that it is probably best he goes as people will just coast (including probably him). I suspect a trigger point may be if/when they get knocked out of the European cup.

Thats just my reading of it though. In honesty, I'm beyond caring now. He's got to the ame point Houllier got to with them, where you could see a good manager was never going to take them any further. Houllier ended up dragging them backwards and they took about 8 years and massive money to get near a title challenge after his initial decline came. Klopp, in his mindset will only cause further damage if he stays now.
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If he loses to SU and Chelsea he might not have a choice on when he leaves
 

davek said:
He'd be relieved to be sacked right now. As you say, a rebuild looks like madness if he has a job elsewhere in mind.

Five seasons in England and a very decent trophy haul: he can be satisfied with that. Sticking around will tarnish his achievement.

The planets may be aligning for Gerrard.
Click to expand...

I actually think he leaves before he's sacked. I'll say a lot of things about Klopp, but I'm not sure hes the most money obsessed fella out there. I think he also understands, waiting to be sacked and the rep completely gets trashed is never the most sensible ploy. I just don't see a world where he openy volunteers information about him resigning and mentions "for a break" if thats not somewhere in the thinking.

As you've said a lot, he's not really a long term domination guy. A liverpool fan Rory Smith wrote a good peice in the NYT this week and essentially said that. He has plan A, eventually the players get burned out and tired from plan A so then they do plan A worse, and tumble down the league. There's no phased planning, and he needs young, fit footballers to come in, which are generally very pricey.

I don't think any of them are grasping they have probably got 18-24 months of probably treading water- trying to avoid further decline, before trying to claw back a 30+ point deficit to the top of the league, which tends to take them 4-6 years. He's not hanging around for that. This also assumes the tap stays switched on, and a Hodgson style collapse doesn't happen (which essentially set them back to being 10 years off the title).

The stars are really aligning for Gerrard, he will have won his 1st trophy (at the 9th attempt in a 2 horse race) but you can see a big push for him coming soon in the Echo/BBC old posh boy Pearce in the Athletic. In truth, it would be an awful fit currently. His experience is less than Lampards, and Lampard took Chelsea backwards with huge recruitment and a world class youth set up. They have a bog average youth set up and at best very little to spend.

His "achievement" at Rangers (essentially being out thought bey Neil Lennon on 5 out of 6 occasions) is predicated on having one of the oldest and expeirenced squads in the league, and calling in the odd favour from PL academies (specifically Liverpool) or lads like Defoe. I'm not trying to be hard on the fella, but those skills wont be whats needed at Liverpool, certainly under FSG. In a strange way, he'd have probably been better doing it the internal route, learning under Klopp, managing the reserves then the 1st team. He'd have at least got used to the structures.

I think he would be an awful fit, and I'd imagine a lot of the players who've won titles and joined after he left would grow tired of the old "Im Stevie G" chat he'd be giving every 2 minutes.

My sense is, they will go Ljinders. He probably has the best chance if Klopp vacates position before the back end of the season. Loads of their know it all guys arelike "just got to get to the summer". Reminds me of that final Rodgers season when they were on the beach. The things is, there's 3 months to go. Thats a long wait to be treading water.
 
MrGrumpy said:
If he loses to SU and Chelsea he might not have a choice on when he leaves
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You know you could be right. He could well be in the old 2 more defeats till he's sacked territory. Thinking about it logically, if he lost both, top 4 will be gone. They will be at least 6, in all likelihood 9 points behind Chelsea, with 11 games to go. It will be gone. They will probably be 8/9th in the league and plumetting.

Sheffield United and particularly Fulham look awful games for them at the moment too.
 
Rangers have essentially won the League already, so Gerrard heading down South to manage Liverpool mid-season will hardly cause much upheaval

Watch this space I guess

Obviously I feel for Klopp in regards to what happened with his mum, but if he does indeed skip town after one loss to Everton after all the times he's given it the biggun after beating us it sure makes him look like a whinger and poor sport doesn't it?
 
Brisan123 said:
I think unknowingly Carragher may have put another nail in their coffin
By highlighting Carlo's masterclass against them and showing how Coleman and Holgate nullified Robertson and Mane he has given every lower table manager a blueprint on how to take points off them
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Most evertonians know if you stop their ability to get onto long balls all they've got is the front three after that its bottom half table players.
 

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