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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

I mean by the looks of it if Pickford hadn’t clattered VVD it’d only have been about 2 weeks before he broke down injured anyway. To continue to get players to play as they do every game in the current circumstances is akin to lunacy
 

Pabbers said:
This Henderson injury is terrible for him at this stage of his career, and the way he plays. I recon thats could be him done at this level after this.
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looking at the way it is being reported, it is reported as a troublesome groin he has now had operated on. That suggests that he has had a niggle on it for a while and continued playing. If that is the case, it is another example of Klopp running his players into the ground.
 
The Athletic have ran an article on their alleged injury "crisis". Again despite the twisting it has been getting by posh boy Pearce et al the actual substance of the article says otherwise.

Just a couple of take outs from the article. Number of injuries this season, they are not the highest in the league, indeed they are not even the highest in the city. They have had 18 injuries this season, and we have had 20. Yet has anyone made a single excuse for Everton's form so far this year, given we have had a worse injury crisis in terms of players lost?

Secondly, in terms of players lost for 10+ days, they are not that high, even compared to previous champions. They've had 28 such injuries this season (so some re-occurences). The following champions the season after they won the league had, 24 (Leicester) 28 (Chelsea) & 35 (Manchester City). Their rolling average on this metric is only narrowly higher tha Chelsea and Leicester and quite a big below City if you take the seasons they had injuries ad following seasons.

So essentially they've had ballpark the same number of injuries you would normally expect as a champion team the following year (though substantially less than City) and the cavaet being Leicester didn't have a 300m+ wage bill to help them deal with the injuries as Liverpool have done. Far from losing more players than anyone, they've also not lost more plyers than city rivals Everton. Yet Everton have managed to improve team performance in that time.

When you look at these numbers, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that they are using a fairly standard level of injuries to detract from what has been a pathetic season from them.
 
Pabbers said:
This Henderson injury is terrible for him at this stage of his career, and the way he plays. I recon thats could be him done at this level after this.
Click to expand...

It's very worrying for them. See Fabian Delph really. I said it a few days back, if it's snapped his groin (which it will be for surgery) it will not recover to the level it did before. I love Joyce's 6-8 weeks prognosis. No doubt on 6 weeks they will all be bemoaning bad luck that he's not back at full pelt. That will be 6 weeks until he can probably begin light jogging on it.

And yes, what he did in that game, carry the ball at pace will be gone from his game. There will be a residual weakness in the groin and at 31, he will not be able to recover that to where it was. He will probably only be able to be a sitter, who sits in midfield and knocks passes after this, which for all the lads strengths is not really his game. He has always been an all action midfielder.

Surgery on a muscle injury, like what we tried to avoid with Gbamin is never a good sign.
 
Dont ever talk smack about getting revenge on Pickford and Richy or we won't just take the likes of Henderson. Mane and Salad are on the list RS.

Keep the mouth shut if you know whats good for you. Take your derby spankings with gratitude and we will leave the rest of your players alone.
 
catcherintherye said:
It's very worrying for them. See Fabian Delph really. I said it a few days back, if it's snapped his groin (which it will be for surgery) it will not recover to the level it did before. I love Joyce's 6-8 weeks prognosis. No doubt on 6 weeks they will all be bemoaning bad luck that he's not back at full pelt. That will be 6 weeks until he can probably begin light jogging on it.

And yes, what he did in that game, carry the ball at pace will be gone from his game. There will be a residual weakness in the groin and at 31, he will not be able to recover that to where it was. He will probably only be able to be a sitter, who sits in midfield and knocks passes after this, which for all the lads strengths is not really his game. He has always been an all action midfielder.

Surgery on a muscle injury, like what we tried to avoid with Gbamin is never a good sign.
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After the game Klopp mentioned that Henderson had an issue in his groin or abductor area. Surgery suggests it's the abductor and that is bad news. It seems to be one of those injuries that never heals 100%, the only thing in his favour is that he doesn't rely on an initial burst of pace which an abductor injury kills (think Torres). Clubs never mention abductor injuries they always say groin etc to hide the seriousness but expect regular stints of 3 weeks to a month on the sidelines now until he retires
 

catcherintherye said:
The Athletic have ran an article on their alleged injury "crisis". Again despite the twisting it has been getting by posh boy Pearce et al the actual substance of the article says otherwise.

Just a couple of take outs from the article. Number of injuries this season, they are not the highest in the league, indeed they are not even the highest in the city. They have had 18 injuries this season, and we have had 20. Yet has anyone made a single excuse for Everton's form so far this year, given we have had a worse injury crisis in terms of players lost?

Secondly, in terms of players lost for 10+ days, they are not that high, even compared to previous champions. They've had 28 such injuries this season (so some re-occurences). The following champions the season after they won the league had, 24 (Leicester) 28 (Chelsea) & 35 (Manchester City). Their rolling average on this metric is only narrowly higher tha Chelsea and Leicester and quite a big below City if you take the seasons they had injuries ad following seasons.

So essentially they've had ballpark the same number of injuries you would normally expect as a champion team the following year (though substantially less than City) and the cavaet being Leicester didn't have a 300m+ wage bill to help them deal with the injuries as Liverpool have done. Far from losing more players than anyone, they've also not lost more plyers than city rivals Everton. Yet Everton have managed to improve team performance in that time.

When you look at these numbers, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that they are using a fairly standard level of injuries to detract from what has been a pathetic season from them.
Click to expand...

Sorry catcher - the number of injuries is a ridiculous basis for your argument (I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment by the way) To compare an ACL to a sore toe which misses one game or 11 days is folly, they are both one injury, but have very very different consequences.

My take is they have had alot of injuries & are particularly unfortunate for so many to happen in on position, which has undoubtedly had multiple domino effects, such as the form of the full-backs, midfielders out of midfield etc.

but....... There has also been huge mismanagement, they should have backed at least one of the younger centre backs (Phillips IMHO); they should have "adjusted" rather than going on with the same system with different personnel & whether it be klopp or the owners, it was a horrific error not having a CB signed for the 1st Jan.
 
number4. said:
Sorry catcher - the number of injuries is a ridiculous basis for your argument (I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment by the way) To compare an ACL to a sore toe which misses one game or 11 days is folly, they are both one injury, but have very very different consequences.

My take is they have had alot of injuries & are particularly unfortunate for so many to happen in on position, which has undoubtedly had multiple domino effects, such as the form of the full-backs, midfielders out of midfield etc.

but....... There has also been huge mismanagement, they should have backed at least one of the younger centre backs (Phillips IMHO); they should have "adjusted" rather than going on with the same system with different personnel & whether it be klopp or the owners, it was a horrific error not having a CB signed for the 1st Jan.
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They’ve had a wealth of injuries in one position that has caused them issues, let’s have it right. Van Dijk, Gomez and Matip were their senior centrebacks for the season. They lost the first two early on but they still have had Matip for half a season (in his own usual injury prone way).

Everything after that has been a choice by Klopp. He didn’t have to move Fabinho backwards. He had loads of other options. He could have just played Phillips and Williams. You know the way we had to play Holgate and Branthwaite once upon a time. He could have moved Trent inside, or used Tsimikas another actual defender in the same way Carlo put Digne at centre back. Klopp chose to use midfielders because he thought they’d be better and he therefore chose to stretch all his midfielders.

He hasn’t had any injuries across the front apart from the one he caused to Jota by playing him in a dead rubber. Most of his midfielders have stayed fit until this injury to Henderson now (which again is probably caused by overplaying)

Against us they had their first choice keeper, fullbacks, two midfielders, and front three. So that’s three positions in the team that were not covered which is holding mid (Fabinho will be back soon) and the two centrebacks which they’ve now brought replacements in.

It’s just been one massive excuse for them all season, I’ve never known whining like it. We’ve gone into big games this season with Digne Holgate Allan James Richalrison all out at the same time and still had to find a way. Wolves away we didn’t even have a striker fit. They’ve had their three world class forwards fit all season!

I’d have sympathy for them if this was a 1-11 decimation of their first team, or if they had those niggling hamstrings affecting Mane and Salah all season. But no, they have one problem position and even then they’ve still for the most part had combinations of Matip Fabinho Kabak Philips playing there. None of these are bad options at all. It certainly doesn’t explain how a team can drop from nearly beating the premier league record to scrapping for a mid 60s points range.
 
number4. said:
Sorry catcher - the number of injuries is a ridiculous basis for your argument (I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment by the way) To compare an ACL to a sore toe which misses one game or 11 days is folly, they are both one injury, but have very very different consequences.

My take is they have had alot of injuries & are particularly unfortunate for so many to happen in on position, which has undoubtedly had multiple domino effects, such as the form of the full-backs, midfielders out of midfield etc.

but....... There has also been huge mismanagement, they should have backed at least one of the younger centre backs (Phillips IMHO); they should have "adjusted" rather than going on with the same system with different personnel & whether it be klopp or the owners, it was a horrific error not having a CB signed for the 1st Jan.
Click to expand...
Not to sure about that to be fair.
As stated on here many times Klopp has blatantly disregarded his 'squad' in favour of his first eleven
with disasterous consequences - and he has a lot of previous on that front.
Example being is that City have Nathan Ake as their 4th choice CB whilst Liverpool have Joe Gomez has
their 2nd choice CB. All teams have a squad size of 25 players so it's the depth of squad that counts
if you wish to sustain success. Also, lets not forget Klopp bins off the domestic cups with impunity
to save his players. Therefore they have played significantly less games than City for the last 3 years.
Klopp also has the highest wages bill in the PL (not to mention agents fees). It's woefully poor management.
As Catcher says, all teams get injuries. All of them, all of the time so its simply not a valid excuse for
Liverpool and never has been. Klopp is a short term manager and nothing else. He will do the same
at the next club he goes to. That's what he does.
 
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