ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

[davek]

Worthy champions? Not a chance. How can that be even suggested in all seriousness?

If they do it next season having played the extra 14 games Chelsea and Man City have had to contend with this season then there's a reasonable debate to be had about 'worthy champions'.

It's like someone saying they legitimately won a race over 100 metres when their biggest opponents all had ankle weights on them.

14 extra games and realistically where would Liverpool be right now? Scrapping with us and Arsenal for 4th place. There's no question about that.

 

[By god I'm blue]

Worthy champions? Not a chance. How can that be even suggested in all seriousness?

If they do it next season having played the extra 14 games Chelsea and Man City have had to contend with this season then there's a reasonable debate to be had about 'worthy champions'.

It's like someone saying they legitimately won a race over 100 metres when their biggest opponents all had ankle weights on them.

14 extra games and realistically where would Liverpool be right now? Scrapping with us and Arsenal for 4th place. There's no question about that.

You have a point, but that would never be addressed correctly without you being accused of being bitter

They are worthy champions as they have played good football, scored goals for fun and handed out some real drubbings.

Will it last? I doubt it.

 

[davek]

You have a point, but that would never be addressed correctly without you being accused of being bitter

They are worthy champions as they have played good football, scored goals for fun and handed out some real drubbings.

Will it last? I doubt it.

How can that be said though when all things are not equal...the basic requirements for a competition? These clubs are all financially secure. The three biggest spending clubs in the division. They all have the same workload until you throw in European duties. Then it becomes very lop-sided. One team has on average an extra three days to prepare for a PL game to the other two. An extra three days to recover from injury and fatigue. A schedule that punishes the other two with 14 more games of potential injury and definite fatigue. 14 extra games means City and Chelsea playing more than a third of a season more games than Liverpool.

The track analogy was entirely correct and unanswerable. It's exactly on a par with that.

 

[roydo]

How can that be said though when all things are not equal...the basic requirements for a competition? These clubs are all financially secure. The three biggest spending clubs in the division. They all have the same workload until you throw in European duties. Then it becomes very lop-sided. One team has on average an extra three days to prepare for a PL game to the other two. An extra three days to recover from injury and fatigue. A schedule that punishes the other two with injury and fatigue.

The track analogy was entirely correct and unanswerable. It's exactly on a par with that.

Yeah, see your point Dave, but I cant remember a club winning the league, (which they havnt yet lets remember), without being in Europe the same season. Blackburn maybe?

 

[By god I'm blue]

How can that be said though when all things are not equal...the basic requirements for a competition? These clubs are all financially secure. The three biggest spending clubs in the division. They all have the same workload until you throw in European duties. Then it becomes very lop-sided. One team has on average an extra three days to prepare for a PL game to the other two. An extra three days to recover from injury and fatigue. A schedule that punishes the other two with 14 more games of potential injury and definite fatigue. 14 games more means City and Chelsea playing more than a third of a season more games than Liverpool.

The track analogy was entirely correct and unanswerable. It's exactly on a par with that.

Sorry Dave, since when did things in recent years ever start being equal?

Pretty sure the Champs lge teams have had bigger squads, more money etc to build bigger squads than other sides, giving them an unfair advantage, you can't have it both ways.

Moot point.

 

[steken1]

It's not done yet. Highly likely but it isn't done. Crowned themselves a little bit early for my taste.

 

[By god I'm blue]

It's not done yet. Highly likely but it isn't done. Crowned themselves a little bit early for my taste.

I have already accepted it in my head, then if it goes bent I can feel an astonishing state of euphoria.

 

[steken1]

I have already accepted it in my head, then if it goes bent I can feel an astonishing state of euphoria.

A super plan that chum. Think I'll jump on board!

 

[davek]

Yeah, see your point Dave, but I cant remember a club winning the league, (which they havnt yet lets remember), without being in Europe the same season. Blackburn maybe?

Probably was Blackburn. It can only be done by rank outsiders that way (despite Walker's millions at the time boosting them).

 

[bluejock]

Dodgy as in the ref deliberately gave Liverpool a penalty for corrupt reasons: zero

Dodgy as in the ref got it wrong, but was an honest mistake: let's look at the evidence...

Most of Liverpool's 12 pens this season have been defo pens. A few have been dubious decisions but not all of those pens were important in relation to the result. Here are the pens that were debatable.

• United 3-0 - first two nailed on, the third wasn't a pen but Liverpool were winning that game anyway. 0 points gained
• Everton 4-0 - not a pen but had no relation to outcome. Was already 4-0. 0 points gained.
• Villa 2-2 - equalizer. Suarez goes down too easily. Liverpool gain 1 point due to soft pen
• Stoke 3-5 - soft pen at an important time. Easy to see why ref gave it. Important pen but Liverpool did go and score another 2 so good shot they'd have won that game. However, 2 points gained
• West Ham 2-1 - first one was defo a pen. Second one, for me, wasn't dubious. The keeper took down Flanagan, was never in control of the ball. Not sure why it became such an issue. Plus, the West Ham goal was far more dubious. Fair result. 0 points gained.

Looking through that I'd say Liverpool have been awarded 2 'dodgy' penalties that have actually gained points - 3 in total. I guess there are times Liverpool could've won pens at key times but the ref didn't agree. You may disagree with my assessment above but we are not talking about 8 or 9 game changing pens that shouldn't have been given.

There's obviously an inclination to solely focus on Liverpool's favourable decisions here but the penalty 'thing' is because Liverpool are a very good attacking force and will win a lot if penalties. It's not an FA agenda. 41 out of 45 points this calendar year is why Liverpool are top not because refs are desperate for Liverpool to win the league. Indeed, I was led to believe Clattenburg loved Liverpool and hated Everton but on Sunday goes and awards the first penalty against United away from OT in about 4 years or something.

Can't argue.

 

[davek]

Sorry Dave, since when did things in recent years ever start being equal?

Pretty sure the Champs lge teams have had bigger squads, more money etc to build bigger squads than other sides, giving them an unfair advantage, you can't have it both ways.

Moot point.

But we're talking in relation to Liverpool, not any other team outside the CL finishing teams of the past couple of years. They spent big in that time out and, when all is said and done, Chelsea and City will have called on the same core players to fight on all fronts.

It's unanswerable mate. You give teams over a third of a domestic season each to negotiate against a near challenger who dont have that workload and it is a monumental task for them to deal with.

Liverpool have been blessed with the two best strikers in the PL this season, no question. And that has resulted in them getting their necks in front. In all fairness it should be much better for them than it coming down to the last game of the season.

How can they be argued to be worthy of being champions when you strip all the nonsense away?

 

[nsno-chris]

Dodgy as in the ref deliberately gave Liverpool a penalty for corrupt reasons: zero

Dodgy as in the ref got it wrong, but was an honest mistake: let's look at the evidence...

Most of Liverpool's 12 pens this season have been defo pens. A few have been dubious decisions but not all of those pens were important in relation to the result. Here are the pens that were debatable.

• United 3-0 - first two nailed on, the third wasn't a pen but Liverpool were winning that game anyway. 0 points gained
• Everton 4-0 - not a pen but had no relation to outcome. Was already 4-0. 0 points gained.
• Villa 2-2 - equalizer. Suarez goes down too easily. Liverpool gain 1 point due to soft pen
• Stoke 3-5 - soft pen at an important time. Easy to see why ref gave it. Important pen but Liverpool did go and score another 2 so good shot they'd have won that game. However, 2 points gained
• West Ham 2-1 - first one was defo a pen. Second one, for me, wasn't dubious. The keeper took down Flanagan, was never in control of the ball. Not sure why it became such an issue. Plus, the West Ham goal was far more dubious. Fair result. 0 points gained.

Looking through that I'd say Liverpool have been awarded 2 'dodgy' penalties that have actually gained points - 3 in total. I guess there are times Liverpool could've won pens at key times but the ref didn't agree. You may disagree with my assessment above but we are not talking about 8 or 9 game changing pens that shouldn't have been given.

There's obviously an inclination to solely focus on Liverpool's favourable decisions here but the penalty 'thing' is because Liverpool are a very good attacking force and will win a lot if penalties. It's not an FA agenda. 41 out of 45 points this calendar year is why Liverpool are top not because refs are desperate for Liverpool to win the league. Indeed, I was led to believe Clattenburg loved Liverpool and hated Everton but on Sunday goes and awards the first penalty against United away from OT in about 4 years or something.

Mate you seem like a decent lad. Some on here are just desperate to find a reason not to justify your position.

Do I want you to win the league? Of course not. Can I argue you don't deserve to be there on merit? Of course not, the run has been immense, and the league doesn't lie.

has not being in the europe helped? Yes, does that really concern any liverpool fan? No. If we were top I wouldn't give to shits what opposition fans thought.

still hope you blow it though

 

[Blueblooded]

Snip..

has not being in the europe helped? Yes, does that really concern any liverpool fan? No. If we were top I wouldn't give to shits what opposition fans thought.

still hope you blow it though

That's the bit that gets me. Were there a shedload of RS fans signing up on here when they finished below us? I can concede grudging admiration that they have gone from 7th place to a potential top place finish, but I still maintain that almost everything has gone in their favour and they are the spawniest scum around.

If their their fans want to spend their time bigging up their tranny-shagging blert of a manager and team full of thugs and cheats then there are plenty of other places they can go.

Just saying like.

 

[Woolly Blue]

But we're talking in relation to Liverpool, not any other team outside the CL finishing teams of the past couple of years. They spent big in that time out and, when all is said and done, Chelsea and City will have called on the same core players to fight on all fronts.

It's unanswerable mate. You give teams over a third of a domestic season each to negotiate against a near challenger who dont have that workload and it is a monumental task for them to deal with.

Liverpool have been blessed with the two best strikers in the PL this season, no question. And that has resulted in them getting their necks in front. In all fairness it should be much better for them than it coming down to the last game of the season.

How can they be argued to be worthy of being champions when you strip all the nonsense away?

I'd agree that this season it's been lopsided because they havn't had any European footie to deal with, but that's because they were b. awful last season. Even with my blue-tinted specs on I have to admit that they've improved massively this season and, assuming they go on and win it, then they'll have more points than anyone else and will be worthy champions. To a certain extent Citeh and Chelsea are gift-wrapping it for them, which is hugely annoying but that's not the RS's fault.

Next season will be much tougher for them and will be , so you're right in that respect, it'll be a truer test. Hopefully they'll lose their next three games though.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Tell you what, the Kopites must feel like all of their Christmasses have come at once this season.

Moyes takes United from clear champions to not even qualifying for Europe, then getting humiliated and sacked before the season is out.

Their man Brendan is talked of as the second coming of Shankley, winning them the league at a canter whilst giving old Moyes a good 3-0 drubbing at Old Trafford in the process and smashing us 4-0 at Anfield.

We put up a fight to make top four but ultimately fall short.

Imagine if something like that happened to us, it must feel absolutely effin' superb.