ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

[longers]

Your opinion but you have no right to bad mouth all blues about this. You do not know their motives for calling them murderers. You've put your opinion forward. It's clear that the blues in this thread disagree.

Ive got every right to criticise people for using the term murderers to blanket label a demographic of millions. It's childlike behaviour.

if people were just criticising the clubs handling of heysel then I'd have no complaints.

 

[rylojr]

I kind of see where you're coming from but you're making a mistake taking it as a personal attack on each and every Liverpool fan. We all have mates and relatives who support Liverpool and nobody is calling them murderers.

But the hypocrisy of the club and some of its supporters when it comes to Heysel is astounding. I refer you to an excerpt from an article on the Liverpool FC official site about Heysel:





It's an unbelievable example of revisionism and evasion of responsibility. The club and community have rightfully fought for the recognition of institutional culpability for Hillsborough. But to turn around and wash their hands of a disaster which their own supporters instigated reeks of hypocrisy. Liverpool fans aren't murderers, but the term is intended as a reminder of something their club has never taken responsibility for and continues to brush under the carpet

The key word in that offical LFC Website statement about the disaster: "Witnessed". How about caused? or instigated?

Speaks a thousand words doesn't it?

Unbelievable how from the top down, they try and airbrush the facts. And putting a snide tiny plaque at a ridiculous height on a wall that isnt exactly prominent on the stadium pretty much shows how much they try to distance themselves from it.

Damn right they should be constantly reminded of the horrors they have caused. If it falls to us, then so be it. Because they as an organisation and their friends in the "MMEEEJJA"certainly wont highlight it. If you want to see their true stance on it, read the infamous Phil Neal interview with the Guardian where he's shamelessly casing the interviewer for cash to recollect his memories of Heysel.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2005/apr/03/newsstory.sport

 

[GerryandthePaceMerchants]

It's about institutional responsibility for me. Anyone can see that they ignore Heysel as much as they possibly can, probably because it would hurt their brand. An unofficial apology in the Echo 20 years later doesn't change that.

Can't disagree with most of that but as stated before the echo apology wasn't something I factored in. Rather the apology in the programme as cited in the echo link I posted.

Your opinion but you have no right to bad mouth all blues about this. You do not know their motives for calling them murderers. You've put your opinion forward. It's clear that the blues in this thread disagree.

I called one poster on his bile and followed up with how much I hate seeing our fans bring it up at games, in pubs etc. I'd be interested to know what these "motives for calling them murderers" would actually be. I'm positive that none of it is based on their moral compass being triggered by the actions/none actions of Liverpool.

It's an emotive subject and as I said before, I doubt in the history of the internet anyone has read a post and thought "you know what, I am out of order there, I best cut that out"

 

[GerryandthePaceMerchants]

Ive got every right to criticise people for using the term murderers to blanket label a demographic of millions. It's childlike behaviour.

if people were just criticising the clubs handling of heysel then I'd have no complaints.

I'm just waiting for someone to twist themselves in knots to claim that the Murderer and ATV shouts are directed at the clubs hierarchy and infrastructure and not at the fans. It's inevitable.

 

[Groucho]

It's not really though is it. I guarantee you any neutral would share my stance on the matter.

Do you really want to go down the almost cultish route of thinking your fellow fans can only be correct and anyone pointing out flaws in their behaviour is moronic ? Wouldn't that be deemed as kopite behaviour by some ?

Pipe down you self righteous bellend.

Stop insulting Everton fans and defending that lot.

You guarantee? How. An you possibly do that ?

Like @Prevenger17 said my feelings are that until they accept their part in the murder of 39 football fans they should be called out on it.

Or are you happy to let them airbrush it out of history as they want to?

There's nothing self reighteous about it, calling their fans murderers is idiotic in the extreme and yes most educated neutrals would consider it piss poor to do so just as they consider it piss poor to label millions of Muslims as terrorists because a tiny portion are involved in terrorism.

I don't suppose we'll get much of a neutral perspective here so shall we look at the facts? 39 people died at a game.

Mostly Liverpool fans charged at a wall which caused that.

Does that make those who did it guilty? Yes of course.

Does it make all reds murderers? Of course not.

For me, the issue is what is and isn't acceptable in football chants. I personally dislike "murderers" and "Munich"-like stuff.

 

[MikeH72]

 

[Ernie]

come in here to rip the RS

instead a few *cough* blues are defending them to the hilt

laughable, we all know what your game is

 

[Kurt.]

Couple of things here which might interest you based on a google search. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/heysel-disaster---30-years-9350754

"The disaster saw Liverpool FC announce a self-imposed European ban, while, at Thatcher’s behest, the FA banned the five English clubs who had qualified for European competition, including Everton, who had qualified for the European Cup after winning the league."

Acceptance of responsibility?

"Seven were given three year prison terms and the other seven suspended three-year sentences."

Convictions because of responsibility?

"It would take 20 years from the disaster until the clubs met again in the Champions League.

In 2005 the Liverpool ECHO printed the names of the victims on its front page, above a banner headline which read: “We’re Sorry”

The match programme featured a two-page apology by Liverpool fan Terry Wilson, who was jailed for his part in the rioting, while Reds fans held a banner spelling out the Italian word ‘amicizia’ (friendship)."

Apology in the clubs official publication, accepting responsibility?

I've never met a red in real life who defends Heysel. I've never met a red in real life who says that it was any other fans fault. I've never met a red who says it was caused by anything other than a charge of the fans. I've never met a red who was there who has anything other than deep shame and regret over it.

I honestly die a little inside when I see our (mostly young) lads do the wall pushing motion, or reference it in any way. People died and Everton are the worst off? Nope, not for me. Anyone who uses the death of people to score points in football (regardless of who they support) is an absolute cretin in the eyes of the vast, vast majority of decent human beings.

Colour me surprised. .... one win and you're back. Title race back on is it ?

 

[longers]

I've no idea if Gerry is a kopite but either way hes been pretty on point with his posts on this subject tbh

come in here to rip the RS

instead a few *cough* blues are defending them to the hilt

laughable, we all know what your game is

A kopite who has bought Everton tickets from other Everton fans on this forum, I must be a pretty dedicated troll.

 

[Ernie]

From RAWK



There were so many different reasons why Heysel happened, all of which are well documented, all of which contributed to the disaster. The biggest single one was that a couple of hundred Liverpool fans behaved in a way that they shouldn't have, no matter what the provocation.
Trying to blame Chelsea fans only makes it look worse.
I'm not saying there weren't Chelsea fans there, and fans of other teams aswell, I'm sure there were. I just don't think we should be trying to shift blame.
Actually, the only other group I personally seen who were in a mob, so to speak, were Torino fans who were supporting Liverpool for the day. They were lunatics too.


It was our fault, but don't forget dem Torino/Chelsea/Anyone else fans

 

[Ernie]

I've no idea if Gerry is a kopite but either way hes been pretty on point with his posts on this subject tbh



A kopite who has bought Everton tickets from other Everton fans on this forum, I must be a pretty dedicated troll.

Where did I call you a Kopite mate?

 

[Boss_Blue]

@longers having a nightmare here.

 

[GerryandthePaceMerchants]

Colour me surprised. .... one win and you're back. Title race back on is it ?

Yawn, I've posted on the forum virtually every day for a while now. I'm particularly triggered by Heysel as I know people who went and were deeply affected by it. Thanks for avoiding any point I may have made in my structured post and flinging mud like a chimp instead.

 

[longers]

I'm also convinced there is generation aspect to all this. My father and uncle are both Everton fans and despise the toxic atmosphere around derbys nowadays. When I was a kid I used the term murderers infront of them and got absolutely savaged by them for it.

It generally seems to me that it's the younger fans who go on about heysel the most and use it for point scoring whereas the older generation who were actually adults when it happened have a more rational outlook.

Where did I call you a Kopite mate?

You said a "couple of blues" suggesting me and Gerry are kopites.

 

[Boss_Blue]

I'm just waiting for someone to twist themselves in knots to claim that the Murderer and ATV shouts are directed at the clubs hierarchy and infrastructure and not at the fans. It's inevitable.

My vitriol is aimed at the lot of them.

Every.

Last.

One.