2021/22 Ellis Simms

[blueblue]

Take a look at the line ups and results for the u23s mate - he doesn't really rotate and picks the same players, even though we have been getting some shoeings.

There's u23 lads not got near the team or subs?

The role of the under 23 manager is to develop players.
They could field a team of older players who would win matches but never become Premiership players.

It isn't that long since our under 23 team won their league but we really got very little for the first team out of those victories.

 

[blueblue]

100% - same with small and why he left.

My mates lad (more than decent player) has not long signed pro with us - him and a load if his intake have all said if they had the choice again they wouldn't have signed pro forms with Everton, and all prob won't renew with us when the time comes.

Absolute mess by the sounds of it and it seems to be unsworths doing - he doesn't develop players, he picks favourites.

A tiny percentage of players male the grade , very often every excuse is made rather than accept that unfortunately the player isn't good enough.

How many players that have left our academy did we really miss out on?

 

[Joey66]

A tiny percentage of players male the grade , very often every excuse is made rather than accept that unfortunately the player isn't good enough.

How many players that have left our academy did we really miss out on?

Rooney......gave him away at 28 million in drips from United then got their rejects .......

 

[Theoneandonly]

It's the same old issue, you get players who perform phenomenally at U18 and U23 level, but aren't good enough to play for the 1st team.

Which is why Rafael prefers to send players out on loan to get first team experience.

Occasionally you will get 1 or 2 god like players who are ready to make the step up straight away.

 

[Eggs]

It's the same old issue, you get players who perform phenomenally at U18 and U23 level, but aren't good enough to play for the 1st team.

Which is why Rafael prefers to send players out on loan to get first team experience.

Occasionally you will get 1 or 2 god like players who are ready to make the step up straight away.

…if we have a very good one Everton managers usually bring them immediately into the first team fold. Very few who go on loan make it with us. Benitez seems to prefer utilising the likes of Gordon and Dobbin as opposed to sending them out.

I don’t think it’s a good sign if an Academy youngster goes on loan.

 

[MikeH72]

Usworth can't win. He picks experienced U23s players and wins games and leagues and it's wrong because it doesn't mean anything and it's all about experience. He picks all younger players and gets beat every week, it's still somehow wrong.

People will just moan about everything and make stuff up to fit their agenda.

You do realise his job isn’t simply to just pick teams to play in matches don’t you? He’s responsible for coaching them all week and improving them as players too.

 

[Kever10]

You do realise his job isn’t simply to just pick teams to play in matches don’t you? He’s responsible for coaching them all week and improving them as players too.

Yeah,and I would argue he does coach them, and often switches their positions to see how adjustable they are. There's only so much he can do though. It would be great to bring through a Rooney every year, but it's just not realistic.

Going back to the start of the Prem, we have brought through a good number of 1st team players and a whole lot more who became professionals elsewhere. But with the open reach of the transfer market and the money in the game, both in terms of teams being unable or unwilling to take chances due to how much is at stake, or by how much people are able to spend on finished articles from abroad, it has become harder and harder to keep that flow going.

And what doesn't help, is when the players we do bring through are hammered for not being good enough regardless of if they are given a fair chance. I had many arguments with people saying how the likes of Keiron Dowell and Liam Walsh just weren't good enough to displace the likes of Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin, both of whom offered very little themselves at an enormous cost to us, and the supposed proof that backs it up is that they didn't get the chances in the 1st place, so they can't have been good enough. But concurrently, this is somehow also Unsworths fault for not developing them? What else could he have done in the scenario to ensure they were chosen?

 

[maccavennie]

It's the same old issue, you get players who perform phenomenally at U18 and U23 level, but aren't good enough to play for the 1st team.

Which is why Rafael prefers to send players out on loan to get first team experience.

Occasionally you will get 1 or 2 god like players who are ready to make the step up straight away.

Thats funny cos i am sure a few weeks ago Benitez was saying it's best that young players get coached by him instead of getting sent on loan as they can learn more under him.

But hey, you know him better than I do.

 

[aglee]

Yeah,and I would argue he does coach them, and often switches their positions to see how adjustable they are. There's only so much he can do though. It would be great to bring through a Rooney every year, but it's just not realistic.

Going back to the start of the Prem, we have brought through a good number of 1st team players and a whole lot more who became professionals elsewhere. But with the open reach of the transfer market and the money in the game, both in terms of teams being unable or unwilling to take chances due to how much is at stake, or by how much people are able to spend on finished articles from abroad, it has become harder and harder to keep that flow going.

And what doesn't help, is when the players we do bring through are hammered for not being good enough regardless of if they are given a fair chance. I had many arguments with people saying how the likes of Keiron Dowell and Liam Walsh just weren't good enough to displace the likes of Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin, both of whom offered very little themselves at an enormous cost to us, and the supposed proof that backs it up is that they didn't get the chances in the 1st place, so they can't have been good enough. But concurrently, this is somehow also Unsworths fault for not developing them? What else could he have done in the scenario to ensure they were chosen?

Agreed, and the numbers are really against producing Premiership quality players every year. There's a whole new crop at each age range every year yet a Premiership squad is made up of players of about a 15 year age range. It's a bottleneck. If you expected to get even one Premiership standard player every year then theoretically after 15 years you could have a team of entirely home-grown players - that doesn't happen because better players can be bought from other clubs around the world. Top level squads in every country are made from the best they can get in from anywhere. Expecting to regularly get top standard players from the academy just isn't realistic - the best we can hope for is to unearth a gem from tim to time and from the rest earn a little bit from moving them on to lower division clubs. Nature of the beast now with the number of foreign players attracted to the Premier League.

 

[Verbal Kint]

The role of the under 23 manager is to develop players.
They could field a team of older players who would win matches but never become Premiership players.

It isn't that long since our under 23 team won their league but we really got very little for the first team out of those victories.

We got John Joe out of it, what more do we need.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Barnsley

 

[NathDogg]

The role of the under 23 manager is to develop players.
They could field a team of older players who would win matches but never become Premiership players.

It isn't that long since our under 23 team won their league but we really got very little for the first team out of those victories.

I'm not asking him to pick a team full of established players and win games or the u23 league.

I'm asking him to develop the players and look to use the full quota of the young pros that the club have signed.

There's kids we've signed on pro terms who he just won't pick - he sticks with his favourites.

 

[MisterJ]

Wasn't there some statistic somewhere that showed Man Utd had at least 1 academy player in every match day squad for the last 30 years.

I know it's a different budget/appeal but that's still a hell of a thing if true

 

[blueblue]

I'm not asking him to pick a team full of established players and win games or the u23 league.

I'm asking him to develop the players and look to use the full quota of the young pros that the club have signed.

There's kids we've signed on pro terms who he just won't pick - he sticks with his favourites.

I don't really get that argument.

Managers at all levels at all clubs are judged by their results in winning games or develop young players. Why would they not try to develop the better players?

 

[Eggs]

Wasn't there some statistic somewhere that showed Man Utd had at least 1 academy player in every match day squad for the last 30 years.

I know it's a different budget/appeal but that's still a hell of a thing if true

…be interested how we fare in that regard, Hibbert and Osman played a lot of games.

Suspect not many can have a better record than us.