Everton Transfer Thread 2016

[HuddersfieldToffee]

You can't excel without talent, and he hasn't got any

I can use excel

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Thats simply not true, he has bags of talent, if applied in the correct way.

Martinez has tried to mould him into a number 8, he will never be a number 8, he lacks the passing range, the ability to take a man on and cant shoot to save his life.

As a number 6 tho he has a full range of attributes, tenacity, energy and the ability to give it simple and shield a defence.

None of the current squad should be judged to harshly, not when we have seen them excel, Jamo is currently struggling for form cos the manager is a moron, Coleman hasnt suddenly become a terrible player, hes playing for a fraud.

Judge these players at their best and for me Jamo is a superb DM.

The new manager will see through him in 6months

 

[HuddersfieldToffee]

At the moment, absolutely agree with you. I remember against Newcastle in his first season though we were all of the above. Especially without the ball.

We aren't anywhere near our best and haven't been for a while yet.

We aren't, and from what I've seen of Everton in the last three years, they are a couple of players short of being able to press as high as Spurs, Leverkusen and Barcelona, and once you have that ability to press, the world is indeed your oyster.


MR SCHMIDT! Komm bitte her!

 

[Zatara]

The players are exposed positionally due to the tactics we employ, they are meant to be pushed up - leaving space behind them that is 'supposed' to be covered by one of the TWO defensive midfielders slotting in between the cb's allowing one to cover that space to the side - or the defensive mid is supposed to slot in to cover that space himself - depending which side the ball is on at the time determines which dm drops in - mate it's not rocket science to know that, we can play any lb or rb in the world and they will get exposed positionally as it is the system at fault NOT the individual player.

Your calling for us to sign all these players - without even udnerstandign the actual system we play and instead keep going on blaming the players who are actually following the managers instructions on their position - wanting our fullbacks to play differently would entail the manager changes his entire phillosophy and tactics

You want us to break the McCarthy and Barry partnership allowing us to play only one defensive midfielder, as i stated above Martinez and his system require two defensive midfielders as one is supposed to be slotting into the defense depending what side the ball is on at the time allowing the other to occupy a more central position in defensive midfield, to go with one defensive centre midfielder and bring in a more attack minded centre midfielder would entail the manager changing his entire phillosophy and tactics

It seems to me mate, that you are actually advocating a utter abandonment of the entire way we set up as a team, the structure, individual players roles in the tactical set up, whilst saying we should keep the manager who for seven years in a row has effectively played with the system and tactics you want to abandon, WHY exactly do you want to keep this manager and change everything about the way he sets a team up for rather than just change the manager for one who isn't so wedded to the current system and either employs the one you like or is tactically flexible enough to change formations? Serious question btw - as to me it seems you have jumped on the Martinez in camp without giving it an actual thought to the fact it doesn't equate with everything else you would like to see - tactical changes, changes in players, changes in what each role in the team does etc?

Wigan and Everton are 2 different kettles of fish.

Wigan he was trying to keep them in the league with 25%-30%,of his budget slashed when other clubs were increasing their budgets + even played 3 / 5 at the back for a fair few games.

With us, we dont know if he will play with 3, 4 or even 5 at the back. We wont know this until he has his own team/squad.

Just looking at the CMs he has:
Barry
Barkley
Tarashaj
MCCarthy
Besic

Hes not spent money on them other than McCarthy £13mil, Besic £2.5 rising to £4mil and Tarashaj £2.5mil i think.

My point about Martinez is always the same, we dont know what the squad will end up looking like....look at the left side with £5mil spent on Kone/Cleverley combined...

I like the signings he has made (other than kone) when he has had a bit of cash to spend. Im quite keen to see what he can do with money and how he would adapt the current system with new players.

Clearly we arent Barca, we are trying to emulate them in the same way Swansea used to emulate Arsenal with Martinez style. That doesnt mean we will play like them or have a similar setup from day 1. It takes years...hes had almost 3 seasons now...i think after this summer we should see what he can do after finishing his squad rebuilding and finally having a few players move on in one go.

If it was a game of FM and Martinez had unlimited cash then i think he would have done a better job than pelligrini at City. Te difference for me is that once you have removed Lukaku theres not been a huge spend on anyone + hes practically rebuilt the bones of the squad but now needs a few top players in to finish the job.

We can go on all night about tactics but in a day where Stoke have been outspending us and we have gone from 9th to 11th in wages i dont think he has had the cash to build + has had players likely unhappy at not being in the squad after years of regular games.

I just think, if we were to give Martinez £100mil or whatever large amount to spend this summer we would have some top signings join and see what he can do next season...im not sure who else has a good a record in the market?

AVB didnt do well behind the scenes at spurs and chelsea supposedly and his own signings look good now but didnt until last season when even Poch was under immense pressure. Witzel looked good in belgium before but not sure why a big club didnt take him.

anyway its almost 6am here and im going back to bed....just think that players to make us play a bit better cost money and he hasnt had it to spend in lump sums. Id like to see his team once he adds a few more top players.

 

[DrEFC]

Wigan and Everton are 2 different kettles of fish.

Wigan he was trying to keep them in the league with 25%-30%,of his budget slashed when other clubs were increasing their budgets + even played 3 / 5 at the back for a fair few games.

With us, we dont know if he will play with 3, 4 or even 5 at the back. We wont know this until he has his own team/squad.

Just looking at the CMs he has:
Barry
Barkley
Tarashaj
MCCarthy
Besic

Hes not spent money on them other than McCarthy £13mil, Besic £2.5 rising to £4mil and Tarashaj £2.5mil i think.

My point about Martinez is always the same, we dont know what the squad will end up looking like....look at the left side with £5mil spent on Kone/Cleverley combined...

I like the signings he has made (other than kone) when he has had a bit of cash to spend. Im quite keen to see what he can do with money and how he would adapt the current system with new players.

Clearly we arent Barca, we are trying to emulate them in the same way Swansea used to emulate Arsenal with Martinez style. That doesnt mean we will play like them or have a similar setup from day 1. It takes years...hes had almost 3 seasons now...i think after this summer we should see what he can do after finishing his squad rebuilding and finally having a few players move on in one go.

If it was a game of FM and Martinez had unlimited cash then i think he would have done a better job than pelligrini at City. Te difference for me is that once you have removed Lukaku theres not been a huge spend on anyone + hes practically rebuilt the bones of the squad but now needs a few top players in to finish the job.

We can go on all night about tactics but in a day where Stoke have been outspending us and we have gone from 9th to 11th in wages i dont think he has had the cash to build + has had players likely unhappy at not being in the squad after years of regular games.

I just think, if we were to give Martinez £100mil or whatever large amount to spend this summer we would have some top signings join and see what he can do next season...im not sure who else has a good a record in the market?

AVB didnt do well behind the scenes at spurs and chelsea supposedly and his own signings look good now but didnt until last season when even Poch was under immense pressure. Witzel looked good in belgium before but not sure why a big club didnt take him.

anyway its almost 6am here and im going back to bed....just think that players to make us play a bit better cost money and he hasnt had it to spend in lump sums. Id like to see his team once he adds a few more top players.

How would his tactics work with an expensively assembled squad. He'd make the same errors, and get the same results. He's a cup man, he's not talented enough to manage a league- imho

 

[Zatara]

Keeper an 11th outfield player.
Split CBs
CBs bringing the ball out.
A pivot system.
Wide strikers
False number 9
Starting attacks with the goalkeeper passing short


We've seen all of the above at various times. Yes, as I said, it is nowhere near Barcelona standard, but it's quite clear that RM's vision, whether you believe in it or not, is to be a Barca-lite.

And Barca don't rely on their full backs going foward? they sure as hell don't rely on Dani Alves and Jordi Alba to be rigid, defensive rocks do they mate?

Come on now.

The key difference are the players.

GK -- Need a new one who can play out from the back like Barca went for Ter Stegen. We need the best money can buy there now.

FB -- Barca full backs can defend. Ours are far more attack minded and whilst i overbalance with ultra defensive players i think we need players with more defensive nous there. Oviedo wss a breath of fresh air and he wouldnt compare to an in form baines from an attacking perspective 2 or 3 years ago.

CB -- Jags cant fit the system and is no leader. Mori and Stones are adapting and developing still and i think we lack one major player in there who can marshall the defence.

DM/CM -- We havent really spent money here other than on McCarthy.

LW -- £5mil on clev and kone


For me, its about the money. We cant even know what will be the final dream style of play or system martinez wants till he has some cash to spend and brings in the next wave of players.

The youth sides seem to do well with his setup and a bit of tinkering. That bodes well for the long term.

 

[Zatara]

How would his tactics work with an expensively assembled squad. He'd make the same errors, and get the same results. He's a cup man, he's not talented enough to manage a league- imho

We dont know yet and we wont know until he is given that opportunity.

The time to give him the money is this summer so he can bring in the remaining players he needs.

Its no good judging someone on league position and looking at 5 or 6 players in a team as being great but young but then ignoring that he hasnt really had the funds to improve other areas. I mean, its not like hes been given a stack of cash other than when we signed lukaku.

If he was given money we wouldnt have Barry/McCarthy in CM or Clev/Kone on the left.

I think weve invested 3 years on him with a long term plan and it would be a shame if we didnt back him with money now to see what he can do...

 

[DrEFC]

We dont know yet and we wont know until he is given that opportunity.

The time to give him the money is this summer so he can bring in the remaining players he needs.

Its no good judging someone on league position and looking at 5 or 6 players in a team as being great but young but then ignoring that he hasnt really had the funds to improve other areas. I mean, its not like hes been given a stack of cash other than when we signed lukaku.

If he was given money we wouldnt have Barry/McCarthy in CM or Clev/Kone on the left.

I think weve invested 3 years on him with a long term plan and it would be a shame if we didnt back him with money now to see what he can do...

Would you say he's had more resources here than at Wigan?

 

[Zatara]

Would you say he's had more resources here than at Wigan?

If you look at Wigans wage budget it put them in the relegation positions every season. If you look at our budget which appears to be 11th in the league then thats usually a good barometer.

Added to that im not sure where he is 'exactly' on next spend but is imagine mid table or lower with a few players hes not bedn able to shift on and no cash for improvements.

So, to answer your (obviously loaded) question you could say yes but only as much as mid-table expectations.

 

[riddick]

Wigan and Everton are 2 different kettles of fish.

Wigan he was trying to keep them in the league with 25%-30%,of his budget slashed when other clubs were increasing their budgets + even played 3 / 5 at the back for a fair few games.

With us, we dont know if he will play with 3, 4 or even 5 at the back. We wont know this until he has his own team/squad.

Just looking at the CMs he has:
Barry
Barkley
Tarashaj
MCCarthy
Besic

Hes not spent money on them other than McCarthy £13mil, Besic £2.5 rising to £4mil and Tarashaj £2.5mil i think.

My point about Martinez is always the same, we dont know what the squad will end up looking like....look at the left side with £5mil spent on Kone/Cleverley combined...

I like the signings he has made (other than kone) when he has had a bit of cash to spend. Im quite keen to see what he can do with money and how he would adapt the current system with new players.

Clearly we arent Barca, we are trying to emulate them in the same way Swansea used to emulate Arsenal with Martinez style. That doesnt mean we will play like them or have a similar setup from day 1. It takes years...hes had almost 3 seasons now...i think after this summer we should see what he can do after finishing his squad rebuilding and finally having a few players move on in one go.

If it was a game of FM and Martinez had unlimited cash then i think he would have done a better job than pelligrini at City. Te difference for me is that once you have removed Lukaku theres not been a huge spend on anyone + hes practically rebuilt the bones of the squad but now needs a few top players in to finish the job.

We can go on all night about tactics but in a day where Stoke have been outspending us and we have gone from 9th to 11th in wages i dont think he has had the cash to build + has had players likely unhappy at not being in the squad after years of regular games.

I just think, if we were to give Martinez £100mil or whatever large amount to spend this summer we would have some top signings join and see what he can do next season...im not sure who else has a good a record in the market?

AVB didnt do well behind the scenes at spurs and chelsea supposedly and his own signings look good now but didnt until last season when even Poch was under immense pressure. Witzel looked good in belgium before but not sure why a big club didnt take him.

anyway its almost 6am here and im going back to bed....just think that players to make us play a bit better cost money and he hasnt had it to spend in lump sums. Id like to see his team once he adds a few more top players.

I hate hate HATE the first paragraph argument. We sold Arteta, our best player, and didn't replace him on the slightest because we were on either the brink of administration or something of that ilk. We didn't sign a first team player for, what, 5 windows straight? Did we plummet down the league and ultimately into a relegation battle? An ultimately losing battle?

 

[Zatara]

I hate hate HATE the first paragraph argument. We sold Arteta, our best player, and didn't replace him on the slightest because we were on either the brink of administration or something of that ilk. We didn't sign a first team player for, what, 5 windows straight? Did we plummet down the league and ultimately into a relegation battle? An ultimately losing battle?

I think that Moyes did a very good job playing what he personally described as % winning football.

The difference being of course the huge amounts now in the league and even the smaller clubs having oodles of cash. Not to say Moyes wouldnt be doing a better job than Martinez money wise or squad wise -- i dont know...and we dont know.

What we DO know is that Martinez doesnt play % football and has a particular style he wants to incorporate from the youth team all the way up. In that respect he is an ideal Director of Football.

I personally believe that if lets say his long term goal is to emulate Barca or even Arsenal it will take many many years...however, in the case of the first team we will need to take steps backward to go forward.

Clearly the only way to keep going with Martinez' plans are to keep building his structure from the youth teams and hope that over several/many years we have an atletico Bilbao situation where we are able to play a huge amount of our own youth -- or a Barca / Man Utd situation where half a team of wonderkids come through at the same time.

Now, whilst we look pretty hot in the youth teams especially for midfielders this is not immediate.

So Martinez has basically bought stop gap players for peanuts and used the money he has had for big signings for the long term..its a totally different approach from Moyes.

This has meant theres either a short term player or a long term signing who needs to be developed. For the best cases we can look at Barry and Lukaku and the worst being Deulofeu and Kone for example (opposite results for larger outlay).

Lets say hypothetically,Martinez didnt take over 3 years ago. Lets say he joined this summer....

If he came in and said he wants to copy the Barca structure and it would take 3 years to get the youth teams playing that way with a 5 year plan on integrating them into the 1st team (more than 1 a season) then i would accept that.

If he then said that his own rebuilding would take 3 seasons where we would have half a team of kids and hit mid table before he had finished bringing in the players he needs i would also accept that.

For me, the key to speeding up this process is money. For Martinez to get the players he wants he needs to spend on the unique skills needed to play this system successfully.

Even looking at Mori. £9.5mil spent on him, but if he had the buying power of a one off signing which City have i would like to see if he would go for a Mangala at £30mil+ or a Manolas for example. I personally think he would sign better players who could take us to the next level quite quickly.

So with that in mind id be very interested in seeing Martinez have a high amount of funds to spend in the summer to see if he can speed up the process with the first team with higher quality players.

I think Centre midfield and left wing are two areas we can look at and see that compared to most other sides hes brought in an entirely new group of players yet has hardly spent any money on them.

If in the summer he had £20mil allocated for each position im confident he would buy top players and this would positively affect our league position.

With lower budgets hes also spent well on players and we will make a large profit overall so the risk of him having money i think is minimal and even if things dont work out and he gets sacked next season the new manager will have a very good squad.

 

[DrEFC]

If you look at Wigans wage budget it put them in the relegation positions every season. If you look at our budget which appears to be 11th in the league then thats usually a good barometer.

Added to that im not sure where he is 'exactly' on next spend but is imagine mid table or lower with a few players hes not bedn able to shift on and no cash for improvements.

So, to answer your (obviously loaded) question you could say yes but only as much as mid-table expectations.

Oh I knew it was a loaded question, but with better resources league performances can't be seen to be massively superior to Wigans nor his predecessor. That makes me not trust him to manage. A top manager is adaptable, not rigid. His net spend exceeds our previous manager too. He wants to build a young talented side, granted, but the young stars will likely leave before he has the team he desires. Nonetheless i no longer have faith that even with Bayern or Barca's team he'd win their respective leagues. He worked on attack and neglected defence and it'll likely cost him his job. All his teams have been porous bar his first season here. He'll be grand in cups but not a league I feel. We don't have a world class back four, but his inability to get a tune out of them is nothing short of disgraceful.

 

[Goat]

I see Zat is still spinning his 11th place wages bull when ive already linked him a table showing us in 8th.

I mean WTF.

3 Chelsea £190m £192.7m £215.6m
1 Manchester United £187m £215.8m £203 m
2 Manchester City £216m £205m £193.8m
4 Arsenal £166.4m £180.4m £192m
5 Liverpool £140m £144m £152m
6 Tottenham £112m £100.4m £110.5m
7 Newcastle United £68m £78.3m £75.8m
8 Everton £66m £69.3m £74.7m
9 Stoke City £55m £60.6m £72.3m
10 Sunderland £55m £69.5m £71m
11 West Ham United £60m £63.9m £69.5m
12 Aston Villa £74m £69.3m £65.1m
13 West Bromwich £49m £65.4m £68.5m
14 Southampton £47m £55.2m £59.5m
15 Swansea City £55m £48.1m £51m
16 Crystal Palace £45.7m £54.3m
17 Leicester City £36.6m £48.2m
18 Norwich City £37m
19 Watford £29m
20 Bournemouth £25m

There it is again, just for him.

 

[Zatara]

Oh I knew it was a loaded question, but with better resources league performances can't be seen to be massively superior to Wigans nor his predecessor. That makes me not trust him to manage. A top manager is adaptable, not rigid. His net spend exceeds our previous manager too. He wants to build a young talented side, granted, but the young stars will likely leave before he has the team he desires. Nonetheless i no longer have faith that even with Bayern or Barca's team he'd win their respective leagues. He worked on attack and neglected defence and it'll likely cost him his job. All his teams have been porous bar his first season here. He'll be grand in cups but not a league I feel. We don't have a world class back four, but his inability to get a tune out of them is nothing short of disgraceful.

The key like you say is for the young players to stay. On the one hand its brilliant to get them in but on the other they need to be at the top.

So, for me he needs the money to make some transfers this summer and speed up the process and take us up the league.

Hes never really had money, yes he has with us on one off signings like lukaku but not had it in a big pot in one go where he can bring in a few top players to fit his system.

Also hes focused on midfield and attack and not keeper and defence which could prove to be an error of judgemsnt but we truly did need an overhaul in those positions.

I just want to see what he can do with some money.

 

[marsh]

I see Zat is still spinning his 11th place wages bull when ive already linked him a table showing us in 8th.

I mean WTF.

3 Chelsea £190m £192.7m £215.6m
1 Manchester United £187m £215.8m £203 m
2 Manchester City £216m £205m £193.8m
4 Arsenal £166.4m £180.4m £192m
5 Liverpool £140m £144m £152m
6 Tottenham £112m £100.4m £110.5m
7 Newcastle United £68m £78.3m £75.8m
8 Everton £66m £69.3m £74.7m
9 Stoke City £55m £60.6m £72.3m
10 Sunderland £55m £69.5m £71m
11 West Ham United £60m £63.9m £69.5m
12 Aston Villa £74m £69.3m £65.1m
13 West Bromwich £49m £65.4m £68.5m
14 Southampton £47m £55.2m £59.5m
15 Swansea City £55m £48.1m £51m
16 Crystal Palace £45.7m £54.3m
17 Leicester City £36.6m £48.2m
18 Norwich City £37m
19 Watford £29m
20 Bournemouth £25m

There it is again, just for him.

Might still get Europa at this rate, 8th n a cup semi final isn't bad. Martinez in!