Everton Transfer Thread 2016

[bluestevon]

Wigan and Everton are 2 different kettles of fish.

Wigan he was trying to keep them in the league with 25%-30%,of his budget slashed when other clubs were increasing their budgets + even played 3 / 5 at the back for a fair few games.

With us, we dont know if he will play with 3, 4 or even 5 at the back. We wont know this until he has his own team/squad.

Just looking at the CMs he has:
Barry
Barkley
Tarashaj
MCCarthy
Besic

Hes not spent money on them other than McCarthy £13mil, Besic £2.5 rising to £4mil and Tarashaj £2.5mil i think.

My point about Martinez is always the same, we dont know what the squad will end up looking like....look at the left side with £5mil spent on Kone/Cleverley combined...

I like the signings he has made (other than kone) when he has had a bit of cash to spend. Im quite keen to see what he can do with money and how he would adapt the current system with new players.

Clearly we arent Barca, we are trying to emulate them in the same way Swansea used to emulate Arsenal with Martinez style. That doesnt mean we will play like them or have a similar setup from day 1. It takes years...hes had almost 3 seasons now...i think after this summer we should see what he can do after finishing his squad rebuilding and finally having a few players move on in one go.

If it was a game of FM and Martinez had unlimited cash then i think he would have done a better job than pelligrini at City. Te difference for me is that once you have removed Lukaku theres not been a huge spend on anyone + hes practically rebuilt the bones of the squad but now needs a few top players in to finish the job.

We can go on all night about tactics but in a day where Stoke have been outspending us and we have gone from 9th to 11th in wages i dont think he has had the cash to build + has had players likely unhappy at not being in the squad after years of regular games.

I just think, if we were to give Martinez £100mil or whatever large amount to spend this summer we would have some top signings join and see what he can do next season...im not sure who else has a good a record in the market?

AVB didnt do well behind the scenes at spurs and chelsea supposedly and his own signings look good now but didnt until last season when even Poch was under immense pressure. Witzel looked good in belgium before but not sure why a big club didnt take him.

anyway its almost 6am here and im going back to bed....just think that players to make us play a bit better cost money and he hasnt had it to spend in lump sums. Id like to see his team once he adds a few more top players.

The crux of the matter for me is though mate, yes Martinez can select players well by and large - like every manager he also has some awful buys as well - but no ones perfect, but so far at least and he has had 3 years now - which in modern football is a LONG time, he has failed to build anythign that looks like a gelled team, wwe look disjointed, have no balance and the manager has emplyed his style and formation without consideration or apparently udnerstanding that he has not got the right balance to be able to play the way he wants to, the fact he has gone ahead anyway and plays it and damn be the results is testement to the fact he isn't very good.

Take our transfer activity in defense, he brings in Alcaraz - a slow and injury prone and mistake filled centre back, he brings in Mori - who i like but who is another cb that has a lot of BIG mistakes in him, and he brought him into a defence that last season was terrible - their is no awarness about needing certain types of players in a team, he buys two right wingers whilst already having a good one here and then spends all summer chasing a player in Yarmolenko who is much much better playing right wing - WHY? - we have a squad where we have 3 left backs and he buys galloway who the plan is to develop him by playing him left back, and we ignore the other side of the defence which means we have no one besides coleman to play their, we have no natural left winger and as oi said earlier we buy two right wingers and chase another, we go into the season with one natural centre forward, we go into the season with no one besides Barkley able to play the role behind Lukaku, we go into a season entirely depending on the form and fitness of a 35yo midfielder - when you break it down its a utter joke mate

We have had the manager clearly identify 2 years ago we needed a new number 1 keeper - his own words - we have not brought or bid on one
We have had the manager for 3 windows now identify the need for a playmaker - we have not brought one in or seriously bid for one (Yarmolenko much as i love him is NOT a playmaker), we have holes all over the squad and our major signings in the attacking half of the field are a lad who had to finish his national service so can't join for a season and a lad who is so bad in training the manager is terrified of letting us see him for more than 5 minutes in a game as it WILL prove to be another nail in his coffin when we do - trust me on that


As for Witsel mate, Zenit where at the time a 'big club' in terms of the Russian league at the time he joined had gone on a cash splurge similar to the one in France a few years ago, a lot of wealthy Russians invested in the top clubs and we saw a huge amount of very good players arriving from the lower leagues of Europe and South America/Africa to Russia/Ukraine at the time, Veloso, Hulk, Witsel, Willian, Costa, Danny and numerous others arrived for either big money or who had been touted as very good prospects

they overpaid for a lot of them ofc and big salries etc

As for Pelligrini mate, his record absolutely pisses all over martinez and to even compoare them - least of all thinking that Martinez would have done better is really insulting to a manager who has far far exceeeded anything martinez has ever and ever will do in football

The one job Pelligrini failed in he acheived the Real Madrid then all time record of points total for a season as well with 96 btw

He reached the semi final of the CL with Villareal
He reached the QF of the CL with Malaga and was within a hairs breadth of the SF
In terms of transfer records - he is miles ahead of Martinez with some of the buys he has made in his career managing at every level - check his record pre city
In terms of youth development - he is miles ahead of Martinez - check some of the players he has brought through at his past teams when managing

In every way shape or form Pelligrini is a million miles ahead of Martinez as a manager mate, 1 league title win in two years 2 league cup wins, reached the QF and still in this years CL and up until the city borad torpedoed him this season he was 3 points off Leicester and City looked odds on to win the league (and IMO would have if not for the pep announcement which utterly derailed them)

 

[bluestevon]

The key like you say is for the young players to stay. On the one hand its brilliant to get them in but on the other they need to be at the top.

So, for me he needs the money to make some transfers this summer and speed up the process and take us up the league.

Hes never really had money, yes he has with us on one off signings like lukaku but not had it in a big pot in one go where he can bring in a few top players to fit his system.

Also hes focused on midfield and attack and not keeper and defence which could prove to be an error of judgemsnt but we truly did need an overhaul in those positions.

I just want to see what he can do with some money.

Kenny Dalglish signed Luis Suarez for Liverpool mate, one massively succesful signing can cloud judgement on how good overall a manager has been in the transfer market

Martinez has made some very astute signings so far - more on their potential to be fair than what they are currently though, but he has also borught in some utter dross

He has also had more money than any Everton manager in history by a considerable margin
first season 23.5m
second season 38m
third season 36.3m

can do a breakdown of transfers per position in the three years he has been here and it makes almost comical reading mate.

GK - 2 (Robles, Stanek)
LB - 0
CB - 5 (Alcaraz, Funes Mori, Galloway, Holgate, Foulds)
RB - 0
LW - 0
CM - 4 (Besic, Barry, McCarthy, Cleverley)
RW - 4 (McGeady, Lennon, Deulofeu, Atsu)
AM - 1 (Tarashaj)
CF - 6 (Lukaku, Traore, Kone, Eto'o, Naisse, Rodriguez)

so in total he has signed 22 players - none of them have been left backs, none of them have been left midfielders, none of them have been right backs, and one has been an attacking midifelder who isn't even at the club yet lol

He has no idea how to build a squad

 

[Zatara]

Kenny Dalglish signed Luis Suarez for Liverpool mate, one massively succesful signing can cloud judgement on how good overall a manager has been in the transfer market

Martinez has made some very astute signings so far - more on their potential to be fair than what they are currently though, but he has also borught in some utter dross

He has also had more money than any Everton manager in history by a considerable margin
first season 23.5m
second season 38m
third season 36.3m

can do a breakdown of transfers per position in the three years he has been here and it makes almost comical reading mate.

GK - 2 (Robles, Stanek)
LB - 0
CB - 5 (Alcaraz, Funes Mori, Galloway, Holgate, Foulds)
RB - 0
LW - 0
CM - 4 (Besic, Barry, McCarthy, Cleverley)
RW - 4 (McGeady, Lennon, Deulofeu, Atsu)
AM - 1 (Tarashaj)
CF - 6 (Lukaku, Traore, Kone, Eto'o, Naisse, Rodriguez)

so in total he has signed 22 players - none of them have been left backs, none of them have been left midfielders, none of them have been right backs, and one has been an attacking midifelder who isn't even at the club yet lol

He has no idea how to build a squad

I was gutted when they signed Suarez, told a few RS lads that he would be class...they seemed to like Carroll...

Regarding Witzel dont you think its odd that no one of the traditional big clubs were in for him before he went to Zenit? Always struck me as odd.

Pelligrini has made some terrible signings with major funds available. He should be expected to win the league or come close every season, also at Malaga they were loaded for a while.

Just looking at the signings youve listed down, including the loans etc i think it actually supports my view that hes not had money to spend in comparison to the rest of the teams going for high finishes. Also we dont know whats gone on with Howard,thats really weird but we just dont know what went on there.

Alcaraz was a free transfer so to me it means nothing really as he wouldnt even have played but for injuries. Mori is adapting to the league and that can take a season, i wont judge him till next season but he looks pretty good to me for a south american centre back in his first season...he also cost us a few points but thats short termism, i prefer to look at him as a long term player.

As you pointed out, hes not strengthened in a few areas. Yet with the amount of players he has needed to bring in how much money has he actually had to spend to fill these positions?

 

[mkrudden]

Not in the same way as we do, as they actually go back or go half-way into the opposition field when they are looking for the ball, and are much quicker in actually coming back, whereas if Coleman doesn't join the attacks on the right if Del's not playing - the crosser of the ball is gonna be Lukaku, and it's a shame he can't cross it to himself, as we need him to be finishing those crosses as well. We rely on overloading the wings (which doesn't work when you have only one winger and Cleverley... being around the left wing I guess) and getting the ball back into the middle, usually either cut back across the box or whipped in for Lukaku to finish/tap in/head in, depending on situation.

First point - and I mean no disrespect but I find this a little bit hard to follow. I think you're saying that Dani Alves and Jordi Alba can get back quicker? Which differs to Baines and Coleman because they can't?
I don't think we look to overload on the wings because when Coleman and Deulofeu play together, Coleman looks to underlap and allow Deulofeu to provide the width. Baines is our winger on the left side because the midfielder ahead of him is usually someone who doesn't hug the touch line as you say.
Barca employ the same tactic. 3 central midfielders with Alba and Alves providing the width. The 3 up front are all shunted within the middle part of the pitch.
As I say, you may already be saying this but I wasn't quite sure!

A pivot system implies 1 pivot in it - we have 2, on identical duty, which is nonsensical on so many levels with what we apparently want to achieve. Remember when Busquest and Mascherano both started at defensive mid for Barca, and they only played Xavi as a centre mid, relying on him to create everything every single attack? Yeah, it didn't happen, for a reason. We do it because it should, on theory, help the full backs bomb forward and stay there without worrying too much about the counter, as the DM's can cover the position left out by them should they need to, but it's just not working going forward AT ALL. Barca achieved it by having only one full back absolutely go for it if he should and the other staying half-way inside the opposition's box (as I said above), but that requires excellent chemistry and tactical preparation, which we seem to lack quite a lot right now to be honest.

I'd argue, after much more thought, that Barry is our Pivot. The reason we play McCarthy is because, unlike Barca - agreed - we have a number 10 in Barkley who is given a free licence to roam around the pitch. As you know, clearly from your in depth reply (which again I appreciate and enjoyed reading), the Pivot's role is just to knit everything together and to control the pace of the game. He can do this by taking a few touches or alternatively moving the ball first time. I personally think Barry is brilliant at this. McCarthy, as stated above, is purely an insurance policy to protect against the vulnerability of having a number 10 as defensively weak as Barkley.

To summarise, we do play with a Pivot (imo!)

We've removed the false number 9 thing ever since that Burnley (I think?) game where Lukaku came back deep to get it, and played it straight to the opposition and they scored - now he sits upfront, which is to our detriment, as we have only one other player to support him through the middle - Barkley, and on rare occasions one of the wingers who came infield because our full backs are overlapping.

Totally agree. It was just more of a point that we have tried it, and to get effect too (vs Arsenal at home in season 1 and season 2).

Keeper being an 11th outfield player I can't recall ever happening for us, unless you mean Howard going out and tackling Jagielka a few weeks/months back as a sweeper keeper, or that one time he did a starfish for the second time after his Newcastle episode. Joel doesn't do it as well; and as far as keepers starting the attacks with a short pass - then I suppose literally every team ever tries to pretend they're Barcelona, who apparently invented the short pass? And as of this season it mostly starts with a kick upfield or a throw further out - in Martinez' first season we did go for the short pass to Baines/Coleman/any CB's. All keepers do it when it's safe anyway, and the sweeper keeper in England doesn't seem to be a thing, but Lloris is the closest to that at Tottenham, and even he is absolutely nowhere near Neuer, who is hands down the best sweeper keeper in Europe right now.

In RM season 1, and the reason I use that is because it was clearly us at our best (which has failed to be replicated, granted) there are the following stats for Tim Howard and Joe Hart (I picked him because he finished in second with his City side).

Total forward passes:
Howard - 618
Hart - 380
Successful passes:
Howard - 378
Hart - 191
Pass completion:
Howard - 61%
Hart - 50%

I'd maintain that we definitely, definitely relied more on Howard acting like a withdrawn anchor who would help switch the play, keep possession, and help make us tick.

Totally understand if you still disagree, but what's certain is Howard passed the ball far more than Hart, keeper at the league runners up.

CB's bringing the ball out I can give you, as it's nothing to argue there, we try to do it, but with the 2 DM's mentioned already, unless Barkley ALSO comes deep for the ball what happens is: they pass it to (say) McCarthy, who doesn't find anyone, gives it back to them, they're forced to hoof it out, or repeat the same thing. It happens very often if you watch it carefully tbh... (not trying to say you don't watch the games or nothing here btw, but just watch out for that to see that it happens quite often).

I knew we would agree on at least one! Stones has had his confidence shot. I was yelling on sunday for him to bring the ball out but after a few mistakes he understandably is loathe to do so and has resorted to going back to Robles more often.

I think for Stones, he is at his best in motion. At the beginning of the season he would accelerate when in space so that when the closing down of the opposition occurred, he could jink either way. What he does this season is wait for the opponent to get to him before then trying to jink as he accelerates. It then causes him to panic.

Wide strikers is a really wrong term to use here, as we play one of them, and a winger on the opposite side, and that is stupidly unbalanced, as it leaves one wing just empty for Baines/Oviedo/Galloway to be there on their own - Kone was no help to the left back, Cleverley is a figurative ghost, Naismith was a literal ghost, Niasse is just... er, unproven, let's say, and it seems to be unthinkable to play with 2 wingers/inside forwards... despite the fact Barcelona, for example, do exactly that, and they're finding success I'd say. Oh and so does every successful team that's built on balance. Moyes managed to break the habit with Bainaar back in the day, but that meant our right wing was a wasteland where attacks went to die, and also that if teams had one of them sussed out or they didn't have a game - we were in for a treat of a performance!

I agree with pretty much all of this except for one tiny bit.

The use of a midfielder on the left side should be so that the space is vacated when they come inside is left for Baines. The problem is that no-one apart from Pienaar in that squad rates Baines. might seem a sweeping comment to make, but why would Cleverley, Kone, Niasse... all of them, NOT take the opportunity to build a relationship with the best left back in the country. That isnt anything to do with being Barca-esque though, so I think you're right. Even in season one he would play pienaar one side and KM the other. I again had the Arsenal games in my head where he played RL and KM wide of naismith but I agree it has been rare.

All in all, a good debate. You and @Zatara need your digital heads knocked together for not being able to have one. You both bring a lot to the GoT table!

 

[Papa Shango]

Kenny Dalglish signed Luis Suarez for Liverpool mate, one massively succesful signing can cloud judgement on how good overall a manager has been in the transfer market

Martinez has made some very astute signings so far - more on their potential to be fair than what they are currently though, but he has also borught in some utter dross

He has also had more money than any Everton manager in history by a considerable margin
first season 23.5m
second season 38m
third season 36.3m

can do a breakdown of transfers per position in the three years he has been here and it makes almost comical reading mate.

GK - 2 (Robles, Stanek)
LB - 0
CB - 5 (Alcaraz, Funes Mori, Galloway, Holgate, Foulds)
RB - 0
LW - 0
CM - 4 (Besic, Barry, McCarthy, Cleverley)
RW - 4 (McGeady, Lennon, Deulofeu, Atsu)
AM - 1 (Tarashaj)
CF - 6 (Lukaku, Traore, Kone, Eto'o, Naisse, Rodriguez)

so in total he has signed 22 players - none of them have been left backs, none of them have been left midfielders, none of them have been right backs, and one has been an attacking midifelder who isn't even at the club yet lol

He has no idea how to build a squad

Sorry this doesnt make much sense to me.

Firstly saying he has had more money to spend is ridiculous. It is all relative, there is more money around in the league these days. The 23M outlay for Lukaku was akin to Moyes spending 11m (was it?) on Yakubu. People really need to take stuff like that into account just like the ones who moan about Kone costing 6M, that's the equivalent of snapping up a 1M squad man back in Moyes' time with us.

As for squad building you are not taking into account players for the future so Stanek, Holgate, Foulds, Tarashaj and Rodrgiuez are out of the equation straight away, Galloway too to an extent but an injury crisis meant he had to play Left Back and he played well there so he has signed someone capable of playing left back. It also doesnt take into account the existing squad, why would he sign a left back when we have that position covered already?

You are also including players signed on loan who were not even there at the same time as other players nor have you took into account players who were signed but didnt work out. Every manager has some of them. So saying he has signed 4 RMs isnt a true reflection is it? One was on loan, one was a flop and two go straight into the team, one of which is full of potential but cant play every game right now. So thats building a squad just fine.

We have right back cover (could maybe do with more) in Stones, Jagielka and Browning who has been injured anyway. Howard regressed faster than even his harshest critics would have imagined and we need a lot of attacking cover as when he started with us we had nothing up front unless we are including the shell of Nikica Jelavic.

So really the only area he has not addressed per se is LM, maybe he has his eye on someone but they are not available right now.

Martinez has enough flaws in his game right now that denigrating one of his stronger aspects seems a bit unnecessary.

 

[Klinker]

Kenny Dalglish signed Luis Suarez for Liverpool mate, one massively succesful signing can cloud judgement on how good overall a manager has been in the transfer market

Martinez has made some very astute signings so far - more on their potential to be fair than what they are currently though, but he has also borught in some utter dross

He has also had more money than any Everton manager in history by a considerable margin
first season 23.5m
second season 38m
third season 36.3m

can do a breakdown of transfers per position in the three years he has been here and it makes almost comical reading mate.

GK - 2 (Robles, Stanek)
LB - 0
CB - 5 (Alcaraz, Funes Mori, Galloway, Holgate, Foulds)
RB - 0
LW - 0
CM - 4 (Besic, Barry, McCarthy, Cleverley)
RW - 4 (McGeady, Lennon, Deulofeu, Atsu)
AM - 1 (Tarashaj)
CF - 6 (Lukaku, Traore, Kone, Eto'o, Naisse, Rodriguez)

so in total he has signed 22 players - none of them have been left backs, none of them have been left midfielders, none of them have been right backs, and one has been an attacking midifelder who isn't even at the club yet lol

He has no idea how to build a squad

I think this actually shows how solid in the market he is. I don't understand people who criticise him for "bringing in crap" like Alcaraz and McGeady. I will admit not all of his buys have been great but the ones that have been poor cost practically nothing. What sort of expectations do you have for a 4th string CB you bring in on a free?

Here are what I would classify as poor buys (even if the idea might have been sound, but it did not work out): Alcaraz, Stanek, McGeady, Atsu, Traore, Kone, Rodriguez, Stanek, E'too. Total spent ~ 12M (?) with 7.5 being Kone.

For all of those poor buys, Lennon, Cleverly, Robles & Galloway are in the same category (cheap speculative) and their success outweighs the flops of the others IMO.


Now look at when Roberto spends money in the market and his success rate.

Lukaku (28M) - great buy
Barry (3M+loan) - great buy
McCarthy - (13M) - great Buy
Funes Mori (9M) - Still adjusting to the league but does not look out of place in the PL. He has had a few mistakes but he has also been our best defender in some games as well. Looking like a good buy but still with room for improvement.
Besic (4M) - Still early but looks like to have the quality to be a PL starter
Deulofeu (4M) - Fantastic bang for the buck. He is also a player who certainly would never be in Everton blue if Martinez was not our manager.


Note: Too soon to make a determination on Holgate, Tarashaj and Niasse.


If you break it down, RM really has not had much money to spend especially when a lot of purchases are being subsidized by selling of Fellaini, Jelavic, Anichebe. I trust Martinez with a big war chest in the summer. Even if he does not fixes his issues next season and gets the sack, I have faith that he will leave behind players of value that managers will want to coach or at least have some resale value.

 

[sageyefc]

Kenny Dalglish signed Luis Suarez for Liverpool mate, one massively succesful signing can cloud judgement on how good overall a manager has been in the transfer market

Martinez has made some very astute signings so far - more on their potential to be fair than what they are currently though, but he has also borught in some utter dross

He has also had more money than any Everton manager in history by a considerable margin
first season 23.5m
second season 38m
third season 36.3m

can do a breakdown of transfers per position in the three years he has been here and it makes almost comical reading mate.

GK - 2 (Robles, Stanek)
LB - 0
CB - 5 (Alcaraz, Funes Mori, Galloway, Holgate, Foulds)
RB - 0
LW - 0
CM - 4 (Besic, Barry, McCarthy, Cleverley)
RW - 4 (McGeady, Lennon, Deulofeu, Atsu)
AM - 1 (Tarashaj)
CF - 6 (Lukaku, Traore, Kone, Eto'o, Naisse, Rodriguez)

so in total he has signed 22 players - none of them have been left backs, none of them have been left midfielders, none of them have been right backs, and one has been an attacking midifelder who isn't even at the club yet lol

He has no idea how to build a squad

Stanek was here before

 

[sageyefc]

Arsed reading some of these novels yous are writing

 

[sageyefc]

The young lad with the dreadlocks in midfield looked good for benfica last night

 

[Kiwi]

The young lad with the dreadlocks in midfield looked good for benfica last night

He'll go somewhere for 50million euro and flop...

 

[sageyefc]

He'll go somewhere for 50million euro and flop...

Like stones

 

[mkrudden]

Arsed reading some of these novels yous are writing

Grumpy arse.

 

[Kiwi]

Like stones

Nah Stones would be sound.
Think that Sanchez fella is pyar hype, will get a big move and it'll be too much of a jump.
Watched a bit of him and still not exactly sure what he does in that midfield.

 

[Zatara]

I think this actually shows how solid in the market he is. I don't understand people who criticise him for "bringing in crap" like Alcaraz and McGeady. I will admit not all of his buys have been great but the ones that have been poor cost practically nothing. What sort of expectations do you have for a 4th string CB you bring in on a free?

Here are what I would classify as poor buys (even if the idea might have been sound, but it did not work out): Alcaraz, Stanek, McGeady, Atsu, Traore, Kone, Rodriguez, Stanek, E'too. Total spent ~ 12M (?) with 7.5 being Kone.

For all of those poor buys, Lennon, Cleverly, Robles & Galloway are in the same category (cheap speculative) and their success outweighs the flops of the others IMO.


Now look at when Roberto spends money in the market and his success rate.

Lukaku (28M) - great buy
Barry (3M+loan) - great buy
McCarthy - (13M) - great Buy
Funes Mori (9M) - Still adjusting to the league but does not look out of place in the PL. He has had a few mistakes but he has also been our best defender in some games as well. Looking like a good buy but still with room for improvement.
Besic (4M) - Still early but looks like to have the quality to be a PL starter
Deulofeu (4M) - Fantastic bang for the buck. He is also a player who certainly would never be in Everton blue if Martinez was not our manager.


Note: Too soon to make a determination on Holgate, Tarashaj and Niasse.


If you break it down, RM really has not had much money to spend especially when a lot of purchases are being subsidized by selling of Fellaini, Jelavic, Anichebe. I trust Martinez with a big war chest in the summer. Even if he does not fixes his issues next season and gets the sack, I have faith that he will leave behind players of value that managers will want to coach or at least have some resale value.

Thats the key for me. Id trust martinez with money and even if next season was a flop and he was sacked then im confident he would leave behind a solid squad.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Thats the key for me. Id trust martinez with money and even if next season was a flop and he was sacked then im confident he would leave behind a solid squad.

Then a manager inherits a team and potentially players he doesn't want... especially if they aren't top class. Would rather (if it happens) get rid of him end of the season, give someone new the budget.