He was so good for them, was never going to be able to replace Iniesta @ Barca which was against him all along.
Who could we get for better, at less cost in your opinion? (BTW, I don't think we'll even remotely come close to signing him)
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He was so good for them, was never going to be able to replace Iniesta @ Barca which was against him all along.
Who could we get for better, at less cost in your opinion? (BTW, I don't think we'll even remotely come close to signing him)
Lloydystark
Player Valuation: £35m
Some disgusting ones like Worcester sauce
Lloydystark
Player Valuation: £35m
There’s a long list of those players recently
Agent Blue
Player Valuation: £10m
Would say more zero midfield than anything else really.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I agree with the premise mate. It's not easy to do though is it? To find a lad who's flopped at Inter at 20 who would actually go on to be world class. It's not impossible, but it's very difficult. I think e have tried that, to a degree the signings of Digne, Gomes, Mina, Kean, Iwobi etc all fit this (albeit they are a little older so not so much risk). There's a lot of risk though.
Signing a 27 (will be 28 by next season) Coutinho is ultimately a less risk less reward version of doing this, isn't it? I mean you know what he can do, the question is does the manager believe he can get the best out of him again? I don't think anyone is talking about whacking a big load on him,but either a 1 year loan (or even a complex 2 year loan to take him until the end of his contract) could be really prudent.
In general, everyone tries to do the above. It's hard. We all know the players who are linked, Felix last summer, Havertz, the lad from Lyon etc. It's not easy.
I am for a balanced approached. I have seen us sign a lot of really good players over 30. Barry, Richard Gough, Nigel Martyn etc were all absolutely fantastic here right into their mid (or even late) 30's. A lot comes down to professionalism, but I do think there is a tendency to write off older players a little bit too much.
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
its not so much the age thing. You want a balanced squad so for the right price buying older players if needed can be the right call. I actually agreed with the approach Koeman took ‘in principle’. When he inherited the squad from Martinez it was a squad of dads and lads, players were either teenagers or over 30, there were not many in their prime so I can understand why he targeted players that were ready like Bolaise Siggurdson Schneiderlin etc. He just picked the wrong ones and put out completely unbalanced teams.
If we could get Coutinho at the right price and he played for us like he did for Liverpool then obviously yes it would be a no brainier. We have to somehow target players that want to play for Everton though, who feel they have something to prove, whether that’s a young player like Holgate we’ve taken a chance on and he’s trying to make a career, a player like Richarlison who thinks we have him his break when he was stagnating at Watford, or a player like Barry who is grateful for us to extend his career. Too often though we’ve convinced players who probably didn’t really want to play for us to come and join by just flashing huge wages in front of them or promising them we couldn’t be a stepping stone to better things.
I don’t think Walcott really wanted to leave Arsenal, I’m not convinced he’s that bothered about playing for us. The same with Schneiderlin who felt he had reached the top and then was booted out by United. Is Yerry Mina completely devoted to making Everton successful? Did Iwobi really want to leave Arsenal? If Giroud has joined would he be 100% motivated? I don’t believe so. Is Moise Kean thinking about winning at Everton or is he thinking about how many seasons he has to bide his time with us before Barcelona Madrid or City might be interested if he plays well.
We have to somehow find players whose focus is in the here and now on Everton winning.
Darth Toffeeman
Player Valuation: £40m
Your last sentence is so important.
I think USM + Brands + Ancelotti + New Stadium has to go a long way in convincing quality talent to join, stay and win things.
Richarlison and to a lesser extent DCL are key to this. They are young and talented enough to take us up a level.
The media will not change our perception until they are forced too by our actions on the pitch.
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
We need to tick off the milestones on the way to success like City did. They also fell short at the beginning. They kept losing derbies in the last minute (Owen, Scholes and RVP all scored last minute winners against them), they lost to Spurs when they had 4th place on the line. They faced constant mockery from the media that for all their money they couldn’t buy any success. They kept coming though and that’s the important bit and eventually they got the 6-1 at all Trafford, they got 4th place, they won the FA cup, then everything opened up after that for them.
At the moment we’ve not achieved even the easiest milestones, win away at a top 6 ground, win a derby, but if we carry on backing Ancelotti with the right players these little things will eventually happen. We need to get back to qualifying for Europe and going deep in the cups, putting ourselves in the right positions season after season and eventually we’ll start ticking off these milestones. The away wins will start, we’ll win a derby, we’ll win a trophy, we’ll take advantage of other teams and finish 4th one season, then we build from there.
Klop and Guardiola won’t be at those teams for ever. Lampard and Solskjaer are inexperienced, Mourinho and Spurs seem like they’re going to self destruct. If we can do what Leicester have done and put a decent squad out for a good manager then there will be opportunities in the future. This is the first time in our premier league history we’ve had finances and a top manager. We’re just right at the very bottom of the curve currently and need to start climbing it bit by bit.
Rollo Tomassi
Player Valuation: £15m
Deulofeumygod
Player Valuation: £35m
Wasn’t iwobi 26m and of he makes the add ons then he has proven his worth.
Think his injury came at a bad time and he did get a chance to show any consistency
Think his injury came at a bad time and he did get a chance to show any consistency
KaiserEFC
Player Valuation: £70m
£35m. What has Pepe got to do with Everton?
Rollo Tomassi
Player Valuation: £15m
It's got to do with the Arsenal fan who celebrates getting rid of Iwobi but fails to see that the guy who replaced Iwobi is an even bigger flop.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I think it's an interesting post.
The point I would make though, is you don't grow as a business or a football club (or anything else) if you only look to recruit people who are desperate to play for you. You have to be able to convince people who are either unconvinced, or at the very least wavering to come to the club. You also probably need to be able to get people at the club who are ambivalent and build their desire while they are here. That is the essence of good management.
In your examples, Lukaku didn't desperately want to play for Everton. We had to convince. We then had to convince to stay 1 more season to earn us more money (Koeman's first season). The same is true of Kanchelskis, there's no way he would have been chomping at the bit to come. We convinced him and while he was here were able to allow him to grow to love it. If you want to sign game changing players, you need to be able to sometimes convince better players to come.
I think the wider point is fine, it's very much the Wolves approach really. We did it with Moyes well. You can build slowly and the Moyes era is very underrated. However I think Moshiri has higher ambitions and is too impatient for this, and frankly you wouldn't be utilising Ancelotti to the best of his abilities to do this.
I do see your concerns, and we have to be cautious when considering signing big names, a lot will have to come down to Ancelotti and his knowledge of the players and his own feelings on them. If he feels he can get the best out of them, the way the market is going there will be opportunities to get potentially favourable deals for such players. If we can get any of Bale, Coutinho or James even 90% right they will be our best player by a country mile (much as Kanchelskis was). Thats the big if though.
As for the Walcott/Schneiderlin point it's reasonable. I'd say neither were of the calibre of the names mentioned above. Neither were world class. Secondly I'd say we end dup committing far too much money in fees on them, either could have probably been bought here on loan had we negotiated harder. I'd also say (particularly with Walcott) he has been ok. Ancelotti seems to like him. He works hard. He's probably a good example for the likes of Kean, Richarlinson and Calvert Lewin.
As a final point mate, I think there is a contradiction in saying Koeman had it right in principle and advocating not looking at the likes of Coutinho. Koeman wanted players between 25-30 who had PL experience over projects. If you feel that, then Coutinho makes a lot of sense. He can hit the ground running.
So for me it's a yes, if Carlo fancies getting the best out of them, and we structure a deal on a short term basis to begin with. I think this can be done on conjunction with signing players from the lower leagues (and moulding them over time) hopefully over the next 18 months Gibson is the next cab off the rank, and then Braithwaite is another. Maybe Kenny can come back and will have kicked on with his time away much like how Holgate did? But signing world class players on top of that will always be a big plus for me.
windymiller
Player Valuation: £60m
Killen is right, they are two independent events just because they spent the Iwobi money poorly doesn't mean they didn't get good money from us for Iwobi.
If we sold, for example, Schneiderlin and Gylfi for £40m everybody would, quite rightly, be thrilled. Just because we would then use that money to buy Jesse Lingard doesn't make the former event any less joyful.
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