Match Thread Everton v Brentford. Preview, Match Report and MotM poll

[zook]

To be honest, I think that would’ve been an extremely soft penalty if it were given.

If the red card didn’t follow seconds later, I’m sure no one would’ve mentioned it again.

"extremely soft penalty if it were given"

okay bud

 

[Nymzee]

What gets me is, and it is a foul and a red, that Branthwaite does to Toney exactly what Matip did to Gordon in the derby.

I don't think Matip should have gone, but it was a blatant foul, just like JB's.

Everyone goes there accident or intentional.

 

[smileychap]

But we don't have the players to protect a siege mentality. Lampard isn't perfect and has made mistakes im sure so far, but what else could he do rahter than just shoving an 18 year old reece welsh on? Can take off attackers and put pure bodies back and literally play a flat 6 with a flat 4 infront, sure. But morre often than not, that ersults in a defeat anynway as pure pressure takes it toll.

Benitez' whole philosophy (if you can call it that) is about defending. He couldn't do it? That was every game under no pressure, with a wider selection of players to choose from. It's the same group of players, it's the same ones who have proven themselves not good enough. We sat everybody behind the ball pretty much. We had numbers. For the most part it was working afte rhalf-term, we gave them nothing, then a set piece goes in from a weird position and the players switch off. It was Benitez' idea of parking the bus every game that has got us into this mess, the players can't do it. We also can't go gung-ho for a third either because we'd have even less back who are capable of defending.

I'm all for accountability of Lampard, he is not a perfect manager, very few are. I can't see what else he could do with that group of players today. Mina, Godfrey, Keane, Patterson (Branthwaite too at this point) all out. Delph out, Allan nursing an injury alledgedly. Kenny on the bench, proven as awful. two teenagers from the u23s on the bench.

We have to limp over the line and then if something like this occurs next season, with Lampard's choice of defnders, midfielders, attackers available to him, then fair play. I'd happily go yep, have to question it. This group, most of them under several managers have proven themselves unable to do the basics.

As bad as Benitez was, and he was bad, it was no different for him either, the players were unable to do the basics of defending. Ancelotti got a tune out of some of them for a while, but that fizzled out as well defensively. We cannot be expecting, when things havent gone our way with decisions (farcfully) that these players will bail us out.

As effortful as the team has been in the past few weeks, and I dont doubt the effort today. Pickford is the one who has really put in this position with his performancecs agianst Chelsea and Leicester. It has paperd over the cracks that these defenders cannot defend. So it comes as no surprise today that even though we sat back with numbers behind the ball, there were still gaps.

Some truth in this.

No defensive stalwarts - farcical that Coleman is still the nearest thing to that after all these years and THAT injury. Gomez miles off the pace in closing down the first goal (he'd also played a crazy backpass moments before). Forwards marking AWOL for 2nd and 3rd goals
And Lampard's still learning... He needs to be all over those wing-backs when defending, they're not doing what's natural to them

• Delph - crocked - needed him today, just about past it
• Allan - same (and possibly past it)
• Keane - needed him today, has improved under Lampard but not a guy I feel can be relied on long term.
• Mina same
• Godfrey - young, learning.
• Gomez - past it
• Patterson - where?
• Kenny - twitchy

Thursday looks like Coleman, Holgate, SOMEONE (Mina?) and Myko.

But the club's mgt revolving door, board and selling creative players has left us in a horrible position of not being able to close out games or easily go an win them.

So back to today... Gordon's been excellent recently and put shifts in tracking back too, but clearly shot after an hour today... dunno how Lamps didn't hook him and Gomez sooner - but for who?

 

[ToffeeDan]

2-3 Skidoo for Toffees. Yet another harsh day at the office with a 2-3 scoreline.

I can think of a few clubs who might have had the red card overturned and the penalty reinstated - or, at any rate, a penalty under review from the initial incident

And you could certainly question the immediacy of the red card and whether it warranted initial deliberation. But, as we know, instant reds are the norm for us.

But wehad nothing left, and no replacement centre half either..

So now a win on Thursday or maybe more Brentford positivity Sunday

 

[Blue Piper]

Feel like crying

You're not the Leeds manager?

 

[BlueToff]

Everyone goes there accident or intentional.

yeah I'm not arguing that, it's a red card

I'm saying, the foul is exactly the same as what wasn't given to Gordon at Anfield. Hand on the back, trips him over.

Now Matip's one shouldn't have been a red because it didn't deny a clear scoring chance, but it's the same foul

 

[tommytowne]

Hope you get on the mend mate - never nice to hear of anyone not being too good.

I haven’t renewed so Thursday’s a big un in more ways than one - hoping we have it hostile under the lights.

It's nothing serious my mate, but couldn't trust myself driving a 300 mile round trip but thanks for your sentiments. It must have been a hard decision not to renew, I did after much thought. So yes, it's all on Thursday. Third time lucky against Palace eh?
Take care.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Before this kicked off we needed to win one of the final 3 games to guarantee survival, one chance gone two left no point dwelling on it really.

 

[Billefc]

.
They review everything... everything. Which makes it worse.

Darren England decided himself it wasn't worthletting Oliver check it.

The whole VAR thing is pathetic.

No its not pathetic, its corrupt, and has been put in place as a safeguard for the glory boys if God forbid, the bent ref misses it in the 1st place!

 

[Joey66]

They did cost us, but I’m not going to shy away from how we performed in the second half. Of course it’s terribly difficult with ten men, yet we invited them.

We had a young centre half on the bench ........

 

[Sharpies volley]

The big problem for me and the big worry is that the positive results we've had lately came from fight, grit and determination. You can only go so far with that. There's a distinct lack of quality all over the park and a half decent team will pull us apart as did Brentford today. Yes we were down to 10 men and if we'd had 11 on the pitch that grit and determination, backed by the fans may have got us through. The problem we've got now is that Palace are a decent outfit, very strong with lots of pace and we need to beat them really cause we ain't getting nothing at Arsenal.

 

[BlueToff]

Before this kicked off we needed to win one of the final 3 games to guarantee survival, one chance gone two left no point dwelling on it really.

yep, dust ourselves off and go again v Palace.

Difference is of course that 2 points would have been enough, but now we've got to win on Thursday to avoid it going to the final day

 

[andy4efc]

So we agree, it's been one bad coach after another. If you can't coach a team on how to defend in the Prem. then ultimately you are going to suffer.

I agree about being short staffed today but it starts with the mentality of the players wanting to work for each other. You need the forwards, midfielder and defenders on the same page and defending as one unit. It's harder to do with 10 men but you simply don't leave Richarlison and DCL on the field when you go down to 10.
You then don't go three at the back if you don't cover the flanks adequately. You don't go three at the back if the midfield stands 10 yards from the back line and allows space between them. It's basic stuff at this level and Lampard did nothing to address either of these issues today. It's as if they don't train together.

But, and we as a fanbase are guilty of this as well. When its' several managers that are having the same problems, the buck has to stop with the players. HOlgate, Keane, Godfrey (imo) are not good enough. Coleman hasn't been good enough for years, Kenny is abysmal. We've had a defensive manager who is lauded as a genius (wrongfully) in Benitez fail spectaculary, we've had a serial winner in Ancelotti get a tune out of them but then fall flat and we've got a younger manager, who has shown plenty of positives but is also open to an error too all fail with these group of players to create that siege mentality, that defence against the world.

Can't keep blaming the manager when its the defenders who can't do the basics mate. I get what you are saying, and I UNDERSTAND the whole taking DCL off for perhaps Kenny (lets face it, that's the only real choice out of players available) and moving Iwobi up. I just dont think it would have had much impact when we would just be facing wave after wave anyway. Taking DCL leaving Richy upfront, only meant that Richy went from playing wide left to upfront. I'm not sure what really it achieves. The options were Davies and Dele from the bench to come into midfield, neither of which can be trusted to work hard and protect the ball/game. Davies was crap before injury and Dele just doesnt seem arsed about reviving his career. Allan is not fit alledgedly, but he cant run anyway, whether he could have protected the middle? But everything that they did went wide and came in.

I'm mostly livid that we've conceded a front post header in that way, and had nobody on the line. Someone mentioend about statistics about offside when you have nobody on the line, but if you win the first header that offside argument goes away anyway.

We cannot keep getting on a managers back when its teh same group of players who cannot do the basics correctly. I am not saying Lampard is perfect, or without fault. I am sure there are tweaks that could have been maybe to help today but I also dont believe hes to blame for the loss. We set up great at the start, controlled the game, won everything, passed sharply, and then a moment of madness, by a CB who is only playing because of injuries makes a FUNDAMENTAL error of the game. Not a bad tackle, a fundamental error which resulted in the strikers dream, 1v1 or a foul/red.

If we aren't littered with injuries today, we win.
If we aren't having to play a kid at CB who cant get a fundamental right, we win.
Even with that red card, if Mina was playing I'd have fancied us to get a result.
Fabian Delph would have made a massive, massive impact to that defensive neccessity today as well. As much as hes a tit, he'd have sat in there and understood the plan.

We have no leaders in the team, none. Mina is the only one who seems to command the respect of all around him and lifts the team. That's what we needed more than anyone else.

I am just seeing the bigger picture. I don't trust half of these players and I dont believe Lampard does either. I dont want to spend my night arguing so we'll ahve to agree to disagree.

 

[Nymzee]

yeah I'm not arguing that, it's a red card

I'm saying, the foul is exactly the same as what wasn't given to Gordon at Anfield. Hand on the back, trips him over.

Now Matip's one shouldn't have been a red because it didn't deny a clear scoring chance, but it's the same foul

Was it? I must be thinking of another. Thought Matip stood on him.

 

[Joey66]

Everyone goes there accident or intentional.

Not at Anfield.....