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Everton v Stoke City. 28th Dec at 1500.

Stoke City

  • Sound

    Votes: 13 5.0%
  • It's near Alton Towers

    Votes: 38 14.5%
  • Mutants

    Votes: 84 32.1%
  • Phil Taylor is an MBE stripped motorhome attacking fat woolly sex pest

    Votes: 65 24.8%
  • We'll probably draw

    Votes: 62 23.7%

  • Total voters
    262
  • Poll closed .
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We've scored 35 goals in the league this season which is the third most and considerably more than many other clubs.

The clear issue is that we've conceded 28. Only six teams have conceded less and they are 14, 15th, 16th, 18th, 19th and 20th respectively.

If you concede lots of goals then you're going to be in the bottom half of the league.
 
Martinez's Premier League defensive record:-

2009-2010 conceded 79

2010-2011 conceded 61

2011-2012 conceded 62

2012-2013 conceded 73

2013-2014 conceded 39 with a defence drilled by Moyes

2014-2015 conceded 50

2015-2016 conceded 28 after 19 games on course for 56

An average of 60 goals per season.

Can anyone see this getting better?
 
Martinez's Premier League defensive record:-

2009-2010 conceded 79

2010-2011 conceded 61

2011-2012 conceded 62

2012-2013 conceded 73

2013-2014 conceded 39 with a defence drilled by Moyes

2014-2015 conceded 50

2015-2016 conceded 28 after 19 games on course for 56

An average of 60 goals per season.

Can anyone see this getting better?
Can only see it getting worse.
 
The persistence with the gung ho system after the third goal was complete arrogance. Martinez can talk all he wants about footballing arrogance but I'd much prefer humble hard graft.

Hard to know where we go from here. The players must be shot. We just have no confidence in seeing any game out.

That is a spot on post for me. Nice one. I loved the graft of Moyes teams. Baines and Coleman are fading under Martinez. Osman and Gibson who were positive influences are sidelined. OK they're edging towards end of their careers but we're losing concentration and canniness with them. I always felt the pressing and attitude of Moyes team was a stand-out quality that could see out games.

I thought Martinez was blessed in recognizing the power of what he could add to that backbone and discipline. Fair play he got Lukaku (great, great signing) and Del, which did help for one season -and we were unlucky not have CL to show for it.

The test was then:

a) replenishing bits of the back 4, whilst b) maintaining competitiveness.

Replacing back four - he's persisted in Howard and let Distin go. With injuries (which are to be expected) he's come up very short so far at CB and LB. Defensive frailty being a Martinez trademark I think it's fair to ask is Martinez learning? In theory yes - in practise I'm not sure. Is that arrogance, inability? It's certainly f(*(N irritating when it's so obvious.

If he loves Robles he should play him. If he even thought about keeping Distin for our promising Galloway, Stones and maybe Funes Mori to learn from, then he didn't do it. If he thought about a cheaper option like Huth or Dann (if it even crossed his mind - who knows) he didn't do it. Martinez defensive frailty and naivety is turning Everton into Wigan. If I don't see a CB or coach brought in to address this- or less of the 'gung ho' (which you're spot on to point out) he effectively for me undermines any attacking plusses he offers any side.

b) maintaining competitiveness.

After his promising start and bad luck missing CL, we're exactly where we were last season. In that respect he's not improving but as someone pointed out elsewhere spending wise we are roughly where the league table says we should be - albeit below teams we wouldn't like to think of as having parity with Everton owing to recent history.

The rest of this season:

1) Bad patch or are we actually anything much without RL?

EXECUTION, Can improve. For all that we press (a plus) a lot of it is routinely flinging balls in at Lukaku and hitting the first man, so it's not that good however much it's 'promising'.

LUCK, can't rely on this!
Yes we also seem to be inspiring monster performances from sides e.g. Newcastle Keeper, who sense the opportunities owing to the space we leave, Bournemouth come back, Palace hanging on, Norwich result, Stoke's attacking etc. That and a few shaky pen decisions may mean we're due a bit of luck. Can't go around bemoaning luck - two u20s in the back 4 isn't luck.

TEAM STRENGTH
I think the real measure of that is RL (phenomenal - great signing) being rested and then we'll see where we're really at as a footballing side. He's rarely rested and not even his two goals paper over the defensive cracks which in turns make us ever more predictable and desperate in chucking the ball at him. Stand-up Kone, Barkley, Deulofeu (Mirallas has to go) Cleverly, Lennon, Besic and Barry et al. Is they flop without him, Martinez has created n-o-t-h-i-n-g beyond 1 very good signing. Much like Suarez at Liverpool.

League or Cup?
For me, the league is now wavering a bit - albeit in a topsy turvy season who knows if a run can't still scrape 4th? I honestly think I'd favour a cup final and if the potential Europe keeps RL happy then great - prioritise him for that. Use the remainder of this season to really establish our first XI and improve defensive pairing(s).

NEW OWNERS
If no cup final and outside top 7, for me Martinez has gone backwards for 2 years and he should go.
 

Martinez's Premier League defensive record:-

2009-2010 conceded 79

2010-2011 conceded 61

2011-2012 conceded 62

2012-2013 conceded 73

2013-2014 conceded 39 with a defence drilled by Moyes

2014-2015 conceded 50

2015-2016 conceded 28 after 19 games on course for 56

An average of 60 goals per season.

Can anyone see this getting better?

Good post. So we're 10 goals better off than at Wigan. He needs a cup final to hold onto his place. League showings basically say he's not up to the tactical demands of a season. Great signings though! SO FRUSTRATING, why can't he just make one decent defensive acquisition?!
 
The most sickening part of yesterday's match, which I have now long mulled over is, is that it must be quickening the departure of Rom.

This young, exceptional talent (gem of a player) is giving his all and scoring goals to boot, yet we are consistently unable to see out a victory.

At the kick off once the fourth had gone in, his body language said everything. Disheartened, disenchanted and utterly frustrated and fairly so.

We've arguably amassed one of, if not the most talent squad in a generation but we are at risk of losing it if we not change our approach soon.

Some may argue that Clattenburg was the reason for not getting any points, and to an extent he is with the poor decision for the penalty.

Nevertheless, when looking at the bigger picture we are all seeing a reoccurring theme: constant mistakes at the back; poor defensively overall.

At 3-2 and with ten minutes to go, Martinez should have been smart and adaptable enough to tighten things up; simply see out the result.

Put simply we let Stoke back in to the game with our defensive naivety just like at Norwich and Bournemouth. Clattenburg just exacerbated that.

Ten minutes of tight and nasty football with everyone closing down and making solid banks of four/five would have gained the victory we deserved.

The same story with conceding easily against Palace and Leicester after dominating possession and copious amounts of chances to gain victory.

And that's what is the most annoying aspect that after each game we say the same things, about the same problems, yet have the same outcome.

Howard makes a mistake... lots of possession with no dominance... failing to take chances... caught on the break... not closing down. Any more?

They'd make an amazing Everton bingo game! Let's see who can get a line with acceptable excuses which have emerged during a game.

And unfortunately, especially with our incoming run, I just cannot see things getting any better time soon as we seem unable to adjust and learn.

Nice fact about Stoke as well: they'd scored six away from home all season before yesterday conceding shed loads. Puts it all into perspective!

Spot on. Positlvely - who / how can we re-jig at the back? Who would you rate for a Jan splurge?
 
Spot on. Positlvely - who / how can we re-jig at the back? Who would you rate for a Jan splurge?

I would just bring jags in, tell stones to stop being 10 yards out of his position and to stop making sliding tackles in the penalty area in the 9th minute. Also if Galloway goes up Coleman stays back, and vice versa at least until Mccarthy is fully fit
 
Spot on. Positlvely - who / how can we re-jig at the back? Who would you rate for a Jan splurge?
Personally, I don't think spending money in January by itself to help improve the back line is a vital component of fixing our problems.

Instead, it's how we play which is the problem. Jagielka, Baines and Coleman were all imperious under Moyes so the ability to defend is there.

I'm not saying go back to the days of Moyes as if they're some glorious era, but there are aspects there which could be utilised; a fair balance.

First, I'd start with being slightly more cautious in the short term to secure results and be smarter on the pitch with when and how we defend.

I'd get the defenders closer to their men, tell them to not back off as we do and practice working as unit - banks of four etc. Set pieces too as well.

Yes it may be to the disadvantage of our attacking forays, but in the short term that's a sacrifice worth making simply to find a working balance.

I am certain that Jags will help with this an awful lot, yet he isn't the magic bullet which will fix all. There were problems there prior to his injury.

His departure has just exacerbated our problems. I'd also look at what Koné and others offer defensively as their routines need sharpening.

The problem is regardless of what I would do, I'm pretty confident Martinez will not address them or at least to an acceptable level.

Personally, I would love someone like Shawcross who is gritty and nasty to toughen up our defence working alongside the charismatic Stones.

But again, Martinez would never consider such an option so it is just pointless analysis.
 
Easy to say when we were the victors in a 7 goal thriller but I thought it was a superb game between two teams who went at it hammer and tongs and it was a privilege to witness it (sat on my hands next to my Evertonian father-in-law in the Upper Bullens)

I was annoyed when we took Bojan off as I felt it gave the initiative back to Everton which you more than capitalized on by taking a 3-2 lead, but we fought back well and one thing we have alongside some skillful players is a great work ethic and team spirit.

I wouldn't be too disheartened (easy to say I know) as I thought some of Everton's attacking play was sublime, it's clear to see the usual Martinez defensive frailties in the side but 8/10 you play with that attacking intent you win the game.

Good luck for the rest of the season, I don't think a top 6 spot is beyond either team if they address their weaknesses in the New Year as attacking wise they're both a match for anyone in the league.....
 

Easy to say when we were the victors in a 7 goal thriller but I thought it was a superb game between two teams who went at it hammer and tongs and it was a privilege to witness it (sat on my hands next to my Evertonian father-in-law in the Upper Bullens)

I was annoyed when we took Bojan off as I felt it gave the initiative back to Everton which you more than capitalized on by taking a 3-2 lead, but we fought back well and one thing we have alongside some skillful players is a great work ethic and team spirit.

I wouldn't be too disheartened (easy to say I know) as I thought some of Everton's attacking play was sublime, it's clear to see the usual Martinez defensive frailties in the side but 8/10 you play with that attacking intent you win the game.

Good luck for the rest of the season, I don't think a top 6 spot is beyond either team if they address their weaknesses in the New Year as attacking wise they're both a match for anyone in the league.....

Well in mate. Can we swap goalkeepers please?
 
Martinez's Premier League defensive record:-

2009-2010 conceded 79

2010-2011 conceded 61

2011-2012 conceded 62

2012-2013 conceded 73

2013-2014 conceded 39 with a defence drilled by Moyes

2014-2015 conceded 50

2015-2016 conceded 28 after 19 games on course for 56

An average of 60 goals per season.

Can anyone see this getting better?
he make everton into wigan
 
You have a much more likeable side than in the dark days of pulis. Played very well at times yesterday. Make sure and knock that lot out of the cup please.

I'd love us to knock Liverpool out and go one and win silverware it's been too long coming, if we can keep our strongest XI fit for the tie (ironically we go to Pulis' West Brom next) I honestly think we can do it as well.

I'd be made up with a Stoke v Everton final as would my kids (one's a Stoke fan the other has followed his Grandad and supports Everton), they're both mascot for the league game in Feb so should be fun.....
 

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