Everton Youth Teams Thread

[Brisan123]

I disagree a little. Frankly I think we should be buying players who can move the needle on our league position, but I have no problem promoting the youth into squad roles. I don't see the point of having expensive imports sitting around for 2/3 of the year in case you need them, and probably not happy to be in that situation. Whereas the local lads, Blues, would bite your hand off for the chance to be part of the first team setup and play part of the time while they continue to learn their craft. Every pound you don't spend on a homegrown player, either through transfer fee or wages, is a pound you can spend on a world class player if you can get them.

You also maintain a Scouse backbone to the club, in the locker room, and connection with the fans. And if you get lucky, one or two of them are good enough to be one of the first 11 on the team sheet.

How many 21/22 yr olds are going to sit on the bench for 75% of the season
If they have the ambition and drive surely they will be prepared to move , even drop down a division to get regular game time and improve enough to get back into the PL

 

[TheJaguar]

Crystal Palace have adopted a new way of running youth loans. They are saying lower leagur clubs arent willing to spend money on loan fees/wages as they are too high. So palace are loaning their players out for free with the catch if the arent starting, the club pays 50% of that weeks wage. Unless the player is injured of course. Do you reckon this a good model we can adapt to which sounds like a win to everyone.

 

[Nymzee]

Crystal Palace have adopted a new way of running youth loans. They are saying lower leagur clubs arent willing to spend money on loan fees/wages as they are too high. So palace are loaning their players out for free with the catch if the arent starting, the club pays 50% of that weeks wage. Unless the player is injured of course. Do you reckon this a good model we can adapt to which sounds like a win to everyone.

Think it’s a little bit shady if I’m understanding it right. There’ll be appeal to bring in PL youth players on loan but what happens if they turn out to be terrible? You’re practically forced to keep playing them, at the detriment of the team, just to avoid being shafted in wages.

 

[atrottel]

How many 21/22 yr olds are going to sit on the bench for 75% of the season
If they have the ambition and drive surely they will be prepared to move , even drop down a division to get regular game time and improve enough to get back into the PL

Indeed, plus there are a whole group of players who never got quite good enough to be sitting regularly on the bench (see Ledson, Lundstram, Wallace, Forshaw, Walsh, Bidwell, etc.) but who are moving on with their football careers.

 

[TheJaguar]

Think it’s a little bit shady if I’m understanding it right. There’ll be appeal to bring in PL youth players on loan but what happens if they turn out to be terrible? You’re practically forced to keep playing them, at the detriment of the team, just to avoid being shafted in wages.

That is a fair point. If a termimation of loan clause is included if the player has sub par performance after x amount of games, maybe. It would be better than loaning a player on full wages and him turning out to be rubbish.

 

[Ring master]

 

[johnnydawg68]

Indeed, plus there are a whole group of players who never got quite good enough to be sitting regularly on the bench (see Ledson, Lundstram, Wallace, Forshaw, Walsh, Bidwell, etc.) but who are moving on with their football careers.

To clarify, we're not going to promote every youth player to the bench. They have to be good enough to put in there when given the opportunity. Some players won't want to do that and that's fine too, we can move them on. But if you think a lad has a chance...and I'll use Dowell, Kenny, Davies as examples...why wouldn't you put them in the first team picture (which by the way is exactly what we're doing)?

Example: What would be the point of moving a player like Kenny on, and replacing him with a more expensive fringe player with no real loyalty to the club?

Does that make sense?

 

[johnnydawg68]

One thing we haven't talked about is it's a lot easier to bring youth players through when you have a defined system and way of playing that doesn't change with every managerial appointment. We've had 7 gaffers in 6 years. All with different philosophies. If the youth ranks and the first team were completely aligned on what we expect from players in certain roles, it's easier to identify who is a potential first teamer ,and who might be a good player, but just needs to move on as they might not fit the profile.

I don't know if that's reasonable or achievable, but throwing it out for discussion.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I've been very impressed with the quality of the goals Ellis Simms has been scoring so far this season. 3 of the 4 have not just been quality finishes (with both feet), but also had a lot of work to do himself before getting the shots away.

 

[Barnfred 55]

One thing we haven't talked about is it's a lot easier to bring youth players through when you have a defined system and way of playing that doesn't change with every managerial appointment. We've had 7 gaffers in 6 years. All with different philosophies. If the youth ranks and the first team were completely aligned on what we expect from players in certain roles, it's easier to identify who is a potential first teamer ,and who might be a good player, but just needs to move on as they might not fit the profile.

I don't know if that's reasonable or achievable, but throwing it out for discussion.

I hope he doesn't go down the abroad route. Liverpool did this under Houllier and there is no coincidence that we have had such a large number of quality. locally born lads coming through the academy over the last 4/5 years.

Liverpool/Merseyside has always been a hotbed of young footballing talent and I think we should be looking at home first. More recently, a lot of the better local players have been snatched up by City, and Marcel somehow needs to reverse that trend.

I don't have a problem looking abroad for slightly older lads, maybe 14/15. By that stage we'll have a fair idea whether the local lads are going to be good enough, so we'll know which positions need strengthening and plan accordingly. We don't even need to look abroad. There is a lot of young talent in this country who would fit in much more quickly. We've had some success already with the likes of Stones, Holgate, Lookman and DCL and possibly Gibson too, all brought in for relatively low fees. But I'm talking about bringing them in maybe 2/3 years younger. Liverpool have done exceedingly well using this policy over recent years with the likes of Sterling, Ibes, Gomez and Brewster.

I wouldn't have an issue with an overhaul of the youth coaching staff, but only once they've had a really good look at them. Our academy has been pretty successful and we have a track record of bringing through grounded, technical players who are comfortable on the ball. We're not so prolific at bringing through flair players though. The academy needs to produce players that will fit into our system and our current stock of coaches need to be given a chance to show whether they are up to the task. If not, they need to go. And I include Unsy in this. There is an argument that our academy is full of "jobs for the boys" anyway, but I trust Marcel to sort things out.

Here's a post I did yesterday. The last paragraph is relevant.

I think for the rest of the season we'll start to see all the teams at each age group trying to implement the new style. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the coaches don't come up to standard and Marcel will bring in his own people, possibly from abroad. Undoubtedly there will be gaps in player quality too, but at least Marcel will have an idea by the end of the year of what is needed. I'd then like to see him explore the home youth system first before looking abroad.

 

[Klinker]

I've been very impressed with the quality of the goals Ellis Simms has been scoring so far this season. 3 of the 4 have not just been quality finishes (with both feet), but also had a lot of work to do himself before getting the shots away.

Agreed. If he was just bullying the other defenders (he seems to be bigger than most lads at this level), then I would be worried about progressing up a level, but he has shown a fair bit of skill with his goals so far.

 

[Eggs]

I've been very impressed with the quality of the goals Ellis Simms has been scoring so far this season. 3 of the 4 have not just been quality finishes (with both feet), but also had a lot of work to do himself before getting the shots away.

..big, strong lad in his own age group. Big test will come when he steps up to open age but he’s looking full of promise.

 

[Barnfred 55]

..big, strong lad in his own age group. Big test will come when he steps up to open age but he’s looking full of promise.

Yeah. Looks to have grown Eggs. I don't recall him being quite so big when I saw him in that pre season tournament last summer.

I take what you say about his size but he looks to have quality to go with it. It would be good to see him over 90 minutes to see his all round game, rather than just the goal highlights that have been provided. But I do remember him from that pre season tournament and recall being impressed with him then, even though he was a bit outshone by Gordon.

What's your take on Gordon Eggs? He's been with the U23 but not starting. Do you think if he's not getting a game he should still be with the U18s? Personally I think he should be playing, not sitting in the bench.

 

[Eggs]

Yeah. Looks to have grown Eggs. I don't recall him being quite so big when I saw him in that pre season tournament last summer.

I take what you say about his size but he looks to have quality to go with it. It would be good to see him over 90 minutes to see his all round game, rather than just the goal highlights that have been provided. But I do remember him from that pre season tournament and recall being impressed with him then, even though he was a bit outshone by Gordon.

What's your take on Gordon Eggs? He's been with the U23 but not starting. Do you think if he's not getting a game he should still be with the U18s? Personally I think he should be playing, not sitting in the bench.

..I really like Gordon but we don’t know where he is with regards to recovery from injury. These youngsters also have growing spurts during which clubs really have to manage game time.

 

[toffeejack]

One thing we haven't talked about is it's a lot easier to bring youth players through when you have a defined system and way of playing that doesn't change with every managerial appointment. We've had 7 gaffers in 6 years. All with different philosophies. If the youth ranks and the first team were completely aligned on what we expect from players in certain roles, it's easier to identify who is a potential first teamer ,and who might be a good player, but just needs to move on as they might not fit the profile.

I don't know if that's reasonable or achievable, but throwing it out for discussion.

Yep, which is why we've had three continual summers of re building for the first team. Koeman couldn't do anything with marinez's players because he didn't like pretty football. If we made the transition from marinez straight to Silva we wouldn't have been in such a mess imo.