Everton Youth Teams Thread

[catcherintherye]

Haha yeh but hear me out; I’m not being too drastic if we look into it a bit more. I of course was being a bit flippant saying the whole U23 squad but I’d say a very large chunk won’t be seen to have a future here so won’t have time/money invested in them further than we should.

Brands is used to working with an U21 and U19 group at PSV so arguably from next Summer our current U18’s would be of a similar age to the U21 PSV squad. I hope we are prioritising our current U18’s before turning them next year into our U23’s with current players such as Bowler, Gibson, Adeniran etc. if they’re not being lined up to go out on loan.

It can’t just be me that finds it a little odd how different the U23’s play compared to the U18’s and the first team. I know they’re different coached but Brands’ academy strategety hopefully is, or should be, aimed at all ages playing the same style of football.

There aren’t many in our U23 squad I wouldn’t sell on now.

The 23's are top of their league and playing well though aren't they mate? As a general rule I think you have to rule out players who are 20+ from the reserves. It sounds harsh but very unlikely to make it.

However the lads who are performing well for the 23's who are still 18's have a far better chance for me than lads still in the 18's. Gordon in particular looks a promising player.

 

[Nymzee]

It’s interesting when you look back , numerically we’re not very good at converting our Scholars into U23s . 2015 we took on 14 Scholars , 6 were given contracts, only 3 have been regular U23s starters, Feeney, Beni , Evans. 2016 again 14 Scholars taken on and 6 given contracts with only 3 I would consider regular U23s starters ( injuries apart) Hilton, Hornby and Denny. 2017 we took on 12 , so far only Gordon and Kyle John has made an impact at U23s . This year we took on 11, we’ll hopefully see more impact from all u18 next year. I m trying to highlight that not many of our u18 Scholars are coming through at U23s in recent years.

It’s difficult to tell how good they are , quite often in these leagues the top six regularly thrash the bottom six , so we see a lot of our attackers but defenders like Joe Anderson I know little about, he looks to be a versatile defender capable of playing in a number of positions , but I couldn’t call it if he’ll get a pro contract.
So while U23s is a big step up from u18 , I think you’re last point is spot on ,we should be moving to playing the same attacking style at all levels, and if the u18s continue as they are, and have a good Youth Cup run , then you’d have to question if the U23s are not playing similarly next season.

Well that’s another good point you raise that backs up what I’m saying: Gordon and John only U18’s to really be given a go at U23 level. That to me is a complete waste of time. Players like those, Astley, Mampala etc. should be give lots of minutes.

Starting every game with people like Charsley, Sambou etc. is a sign to me that the U23’s are just a team with no real direction.

 

[Nymzee]

The 23's are top of their league and playing well though aren't they mate? As a general rule I think you have to rule out players who are 20+ from the reserves. It sounds harsh but very unlikely to make it.

However the lads who are performing well for the 23's who are still 18's have a far better chance for me than lads still in the 18's. Gordon in particular looks a promising player.

They’re top but they haven’t played well all season. They’re top because we have people like Browning etc. playing. Their system and style is world’s away from the first team and the U18’s.

 

[catcherintherye]

They’re top but they haven’t played well all season. They’re top because we have people like Browning etc. playing. Their system and style is world’s away from the first team and the U18’s.

I'm not sure it's just Browning mate. Lads like Feeney and Gibson have also done well and I wouldn't rule them out.

There is some defence of Unsworth here. Last season the team was up in the air with the manager. They are bedding into normality again. They have also had a lot of players brought it and the team reflects that a bit, it's a bit of a mess to be honest. Unsworth us pulling together a broad collection of players and making them effective and I can't knock him for that.

The 18's are largely untouched in terms of recruitment and were a stronger age group (particularly the under 17s and next seasons 16's are stronger still). You can see they are more familiar playing together. This is partly due to coaching but also circumstance.

You are right to say though, How Unsworth integrates Hunt, Carroll, Simms, Gordon, Adedoyin will be really interesting.

 

[Nymzee]

I'm not sure it's just Browning mate. Lads like Feeney and Gibson have also done well and I wouldn't rule them out.

There is some defence of Unsworth here. Last season the team was up in the air with the manager. They are bedding into normality again. They have also had a lot of players brought it and the team reflects that a bit, it's a bit of a mess to be honest. Unsworth us pulling together a broad collection of players and making them effective and I can't knock him for that.

The 18's are largely untouched in terms of recruitment and were a stronger age group (particularly the under 17s and next seasons 16's are stronger still). You can see they are more familiar playing together. This is partly due to coaching but also circumstance.

You are right to say though, How Unsworth integrates Hunt, Carroll, Simms, Gordon, Adedoyin will be really interesting.

To your last point: if he even does.

Obviously props to him for getting them top BUT I think it shouldn’t just be about results at that level. City aren’t too but they’re always playing lovely football and producing some brilliant youngsters. Like has been mentioned before it feels like Unsworth is picking experienced players to win games to audition for a management job elsewhere.

Whilst I have no qualms a man furthering his career it’s affecting player development now.

We’re half way through the season and Gordon, Astley etc. have barely played a minute.

 

[Brisan123]

They’re top but they haven’t played well all season. They’re top because we have people like Browning etc. playing. Their system and style is world’s away from the first team and the U18’s.

The U 23s seem to be there to win their league
Developing players for the first team seems to come a distant second to the manager
In reality the sole purpose of the U23s should be preparing players for the first team
If a 17/18/19 yr old shows the potential the U23 manager should be told to give them gametime every week irrespective of results
It’s the only way to see if these lads are capable of stepping up
I said this earlier but I think we will see a clear out of players and staff from the academy in the summer
Brands will want coaches who see and work towards the bigger picture

 

[catcherintherye]

To your last point: if he even does.

Obviously props to him for getting them top BUT I think it shouldn’t just be about results at that level. City aren’t too but they’re always playing lovely football and producing some brilliant youngsters. Like has been mentioned before it feels like Unsworth is picking experienced players to win games to audition for a management job elsewhere.

Whilst I have no qualms a man furthering his career it’s affecting player development now.

We’re half way through the season and Gordon, Astley etc. have barely played a minute.

I think thats fair overall. There would only be 2 things I'd come back with. Firstly Unsworth has been uniquely good at progressing players up. Davies, Kenny, Dowell, Lookman, Calvert Lewin & Holgate have all been pushed up over the last 2 years. Many more who are out on loan but who have had opportunities in the first team. However many City push forward it is not the same number as this.

Secondly we generally had some of the youngest under 23's teams out of anyone. To be honest until recently we were always putting out younger teams than anyone else. I find it hard to believe it's just as simple as Unsworth looking for jobs elsewhere but that may be a factor.

He clearly wants to create a winning ethos within the under 23's. It has led to players becoming quite well rounded but has arguably not helped more flair players. Thats why I said about how he improves some of the above as they need their flair brought out.

In fairness the likes of Gordon and Astley have played quite a bit, or more than most under 18's players do at most clubs/.

 

[Barnfred 55]

goals via that

Simms first goal. He must have scored at least half a dozen similar. Great technique to get onto scoring position and then a cool finish. There is more to this lad than just his size.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Well that’s another good point you raise that backs up what I’m saying: Gordon and John only U18’s to really be given a go at U23 level. That to me is a complete waste of time. Players like those, Astley, Mampala etc. should be give lots of minutes.

Starting every game with people like Charsley, Sambou etc. is a sign to me that the U23’s are just a team with no real direction.

Or a manager trying to get himself a job in the summer.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I think thats fair overall. There would only be 2 things I'd come back with. Firstly Unsworth has been uniquely good at progressing players up. Davies, Kenny, Dowell, Lookman, Calvert Lewin & Holgate have all been pushed up over the last 2 years. Many more who are out on loan but who have had opportunities in the first team. However many City push forward it is not the same number as this.

Secondly we generally had some of the youngest under 23's teams out of anyone. To be honest until recently we were always putting out younger teams than anyone else. I find it hard to believe it's just as simple as Unsworth looking for jobs elsewhere but that may be a factor.

He clearly wants to create a winning ethos within the under 23's. It has led to players becoming quite well rounded but has arguably not helped more flair players. Thats why I said about how he improves some of the above as they need their flair brought out.

In fairness the likes of Gordon and Astley have played quite a bit, or more than most under 18's players do at most clubs/.

Astley has played because of the number of injuries we have had amongst our defenders. Gordon I disagree with. For me he appears to be in limbo. No longer part of the U18s and getting very little playing time in the U23s. he needs to be playing.

I agree with what you are saying about Unsworth helping bring through a number of players to the first team in the past. But he gave all those lads early starts in the U21s. I don't think he's doing that now and for the past season and a half has given a lot of game time to players who clearly don't have a future with us. For me, he knows he is not going to be here long term and is basically promoting himself through making the U23s successful. That isn't what we need and I expect him to be replaced in the summer if not before.

 

[catcherintherye]

Astley has played because of the number of injuries we have had amongst our defenders. Gordon I disagree with. For me he appears to be in limbo. No longer part of the U18s and getting very little playing time in the U23s. he needs to be playing.

I agree with what you are saying about Unsworth helping bring through a number of players to the first team in the past. But he gave all those lads early starts in the U21s. I don't think he's doing that now and for the past season and a half has given a lot of game time to players who clearly don't have a future with us. For me, he knows he is not going to be here long term and is basically promoting himself through making the U23s successful. That isn't what we need and I expect him to be replaced in the summer if not before.

I can't say I'd taken that much notice. I think it comes to a point where a manager probably needs to move on and in truth that point has probably come for Unsworth. I always felt if he didn't get the job last year he would be done here. He made a big play for it (very different to the first caretaker role he did). That was his moment to get the job if he could, ultimately he didn't and he bombed a bit. There is only so much you can do as an under 23's coach, so he needs to probably move on and get some more experience elsewhere to move his career forward.

 

[Nymzee]

I think thats fair overall. There would only be 2 things I'd come back with. Firstly Unsworth has been uniquely good at progressing players up. Davies, Kenny, Dowell, Lookman, Calvert Lewin & Holgate have all been pushed up over the last 2 years. Many more who are out on loan but who have had opportunities in the first team. However many City push forward it is not the same number as this.

Secondly we generally had some of the youngest under 23's teams out of anyone. To be honest until recently we were always putting out younger teams than anyone else. I find it hard to believe it's just as simple as Unsworth looking for jobs elsewhere but that may be a factor.

He clearly wants to create a winning ethos within the under 23's. It has led to players becoming quite well rounded but has arguably not helped more flair players. Thats why I said about how he improves some of the above as they need their flair brought out.

In fairness the likes of Gordon and Astley have played quite a bit, or more than most under 18's players do at most clubs/.

Well I’d like to disagree with some of the above. Sure he brought through Kenny, Davies and Dowell but only two of those have got significant minutes for the club. Undworth had nothing to do with Lookman, DCL/Holgate I’d say was down to Koeman.

 

[messymascot]

My biggest gripe with the younger teams is the playing of players out of position. There are a lot of players who get moved about positonally and although this might make them a more rounded player I believe it reduces learning opportunities. I think Jonjoe Kenny played too many games at CB when the likelihood is he'll never play a 1st team game there so all that time could have been used in ironing out he creases in his RB game. Lewis Gibson nobody is sure what his best position is and he might end up like Galloway not good enough for either. What we are aiming for is players who are top drawer in each position so we can truly push rather than players who can just do a job.

First team, u23 and u18 should all play in the same formation and style so if a player moves up a level all that changes is the quality level around them. The 2 younger teams should be about developing players mainly and if this happens the winning should follow anyways.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Astley has played because of the number of injuries we have had amongst our defenders. Gordon I disagree with. For me he appears to be in limbo. No longer part of the U18s and getting very little playing time in the U23s. he needs to be playing.

I agree with what you are saying about Unsworth helping bring through a number of players to the first team in the past. But he gave all those lads early starts in the U21s. I don't think he's doing that now and for the past season and a half has given a lot of game time to players who clearly don't have a future with us. For me, he knows he is not going to be here long term and is basically promoting himself through making the U23s successful. That isn't what we need and I expect him to be replaced in the summer if not before.

Agree about Unsworth and said the same last season, when garbutt, grant and Henen were playing every game. And Baxter to a lesser extent.

I think Brands will over haul the academy, to many ex players involved for me. Tait at the 18’s obviously he’s not going to walk into a league job anytime soon, so slightly different at the lower age groups.

What about getting some in fir the 23’s who knows Silva & Brands and plays the same system and style as the 1st team. And if you pay good money. IE the equivalent of a well paid championship manger. Then hopefully they would see that as a good job and not be looking to move. Basically like a B team manager

 

[Lanolin]

My biggest gripe with the younger teams is the playing of players out of position. There are a lot of players who get moved about positonally and although this might make them a more rounded player I believe it reduces learning opportunities. I think Jonjoe Kenny played too many games at CB when the likelihood is he'll never play a 1st team game there so all that time could have been used in ironing out he creases in his RB game. Lewis Gibson nobody is sure what his best position is and he might end up like Galloway not good enough for either. What we are aiming for is players who are top drawer in each position so we can truly push rather than players who can just do a job.

First team, u23 and u18 should all play in the same formation and style so if a player moves up a level all that changes is the quality level around them. The 2 younger teams should be about developing players mainly and if this happens the winning should follow anyways.

It's not easy to know at 17/18 what someone's best position will be though. You might think someone's too small to be a centre half, then they have a growth spurt and suddenly they're made for it, and you've wasted 2 years playing them at full back. Or the exact opposite, a big lad looks set to be a centre half and then gets stuck at 5 10 and is deemed too small. It's not as easy as you're suggesting.

The other thing with youth football is we need to stop thinking that every under 23 is a potential first teamer. They're not, and never will be. There will always be fillers, always be lads who the coaches doubt will make a PL player even from 15 or so, but think they might make a good career out of the game. We have a duty to help those players try to make a living, and things that like have an effect on your ability to attract other promising young players, as they see they'll be looked after. As with most things, there are nuances and considerations, we can't just say 'they should do this' because that would make the current team better, without thinking about the knock on effects that might have.