Everton Youth Teams Thread

[Eggs]

....listening to the FA Youth Cup radio commentary, it sounded like he really stood up when his team were under the cosh in the last 20mins. Not withstanding he took a penalty, I was very encouraged by what I heard.

 

[Pabbers]

There was a moment with us and them under Rodgers Martinez and the two squads were similar. In fairness they have started spending a huge amount more in that time too, but their players kicked on.

I remember having a debate who was better out of Deulofeu an Coutinho. There was a time they were very close.

That's LFCs huge advantage over us, their young players hit full potential, ours often regress.

What players are these that Liverpool have produced ?? Since Gerrard they have only produced Trent. Who still may not turn into a super star.

 

[Axlswhk]

What players are these that Liverpool have produced ?? Since Gerrard they have only produced Trent. Who still may not turn into a super star.

Fowler? Owen? Carragher?

 

[Lanolin]

There was a moment with us and them under Rodgers Martinez and the two squads were similar. In fairness they have started spending a huge amount more in that time too, but their players kicked on.

I remember having a debate who was better out of Deulofeu an Coutinho. There was a time they were very close.

That's LFCs huge advantage over us, their young players hit full potential, ours often regress.

I think a lot of that just comes back to the point about us overrating some of our players when they do well though. Deulofeu looked like he had a lot of potential when he first came, but realistically I don't think he was ever at a similar level to Coutinho. He was mainly an impact sub for us, Coutinho was nominated for PL player of the year when he was about 21. This summer a number of people argued with me on here that Holgate was at least as good a centre half as Gomez, possibly better. It was rubbish then and it's been proved since. One is a regular for the team at the top of the PL and appears to be first choice for England, and one is playing right back on loan in the Championship.

I try to be realistic about how good our young players are, but some people take huge offence if you suggest that they're probably not quite at the level we're looking for. Then they get to about 22 and those same people bemoan the fact they 'didn't push on', seemingly oblivious to the fact they were simply never that good in the first place.

 

[Timak]

New name playing for England U16s - Reece Welch.

Never heard of him and know nothing more. Think we have 4 in and around that age group now which is the most in years.

 

[Pabbers]

Fowler? Owen? Carragher?

Thats over 20 years ago

 

[catcherintherye]

What players are these that Liverpool have produced ?? Since Gerrard they have only produced Trent. Who still may not turn into a super star.

I don't think they've produced many (in fact far less than us) but the lads they have bought in between ages 20-24 they have developed very well.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think a lot of that just comes back to the point about us overrating some of our players when they do well though. Deulofeu looked like he had a lot of potential when he first came, but realistically I don't think he was ever at a similar level to Coutinho. He was mainly an impact sub for us, Coutinho was nominated for PL player of the year when he was about 21. This summer a number of people argued with me on here that Holgate was at least as good a centre half as Gomez, possibly better. It was rubbish then and it's been proved since. One is a regular for the team at the top of the PL and appears to be first choice for England, and one is playing right back on loan in the Championship.

I try to be realistic about how good our young players are, but some people take huge offence if you suggest that they're probably not quite at the level we're looking for. Then they get to about 22 and those same people bemoan the fact they 'didn't push on', seemingly oblivious to the fact they were simply never that good in the first place.

I suppose we have to agree to disagree a bit. I hadn't seen a lot that differentiated Holgate to Gomes prior to this season. Gomes was largely untested and untrusted at centre back. This season Gomes has really kicked on though. Few of our young players seem to do that.

That being said, how good would Holgate look next to VVD?

 

[Pabbers]

I don't think they've produced many (in fact far less than us) but the lads they have bought in between ages 20-24 they have developed very well.

Who are those ?

That age band has been fudged a bit too, its 18-21 we need to improve.

Trent & Gomez currently look good, but again are too young to judge to be top level. Although Gomez is a Charlton product.

Its also easy to bring young players into a team doing very well, a teamfull of confidence, with a settled manager. very unfair to judge.

 

[Lanolin]

I suppose we have to agree to disagree a bit. I hadn't seen a lot that differentiated Holgate to Gomes prior to this season. Gomes was largely untested and untrusted at centre back. This season Gomes has really kicked on though. Few of our young players seem to do that.

That being said, how good would Holgate look next to VVD?

But you're contradicting your own argument there.

Either Gomez only looks good because he's in a good team, or Liverpool are better are at developing players than we are. It can't be both, and yet you're suggesting it is.

To me the difference between Holgate and Gomez is huge. Gomez looks like Stones did at that age, Holgate doesn't. I doubt there's a single neutral fan in the country who has seen them both and thought Holgate was better. Whether Holgate will develop later is obviously a different matter, but from the first time I saw Gomez I thought he looked a real talent, something I just don't get from Holgate. You appear to be talking about whether someone has proven themselves but that's a different argument I think. There are certain players who just scream quality and others who look like decent players who might improve with time, for me Gomez is one and Holgate the other.

 

[catcherintherye]

Who are those ?

That age band has been fudged a bit too, its 18-21 we need to improve.

Trent & Gomez currently look good, but again are too young to judge to be top level. Although Gomez is a Charlton product.

Its also easy to bring young players into a team doing very well, a teamfull of confidence, with a settled manager. very unfair to judge.

I would say Coutinho, Firmino, Gomes, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Salah and Mane were all signed as players quite close to the age I identified (20-24) and all have really kicked on. My position is, up until around 18/19 we develop players very well but it goes skew after that (up to around 25 where we again start to do a bit better).

I agree on your latter point, which of course points too having a settled manager doesn't it?

 

[catcherintherye]

But you're contradicting your own argument there.

Either Gomez only looks good because he's in a good team, or Liverpool are better are at developing players than we are. It can't be both, and yet you're suggesting it is.

To me the difference between Holgate and Gomez is huge. Gomez looks like Stones did at that age, Holgate doesn't. I doubt there's a single neutral fan in the country who has seen them both and thought Holgate was better. Whether Holgate will develop later is obviously a different matter, but from the first time I saw Gomez I thought he looked a real talent, something I just don't get from Holgate. You appear to be talking about whether someone has proven themselves but that's a different argument I think. There are certain players who just scream quality and others who look like decent players who might improve with time, for me Gomez is one and Holgate the other.

That would be a contradiction, but it's not my argument. My position is Liverpool are undoubtedly better at developing players (certainly post Moyes) than we have. I would also say having a settled squad/manager filled with very good (in some cases World Class players) between the ages of 25-30 helps that development and can make a player look better than what he is. I think both of those things can be true at the same time. The gap exists, though it is probably made to look greater because of the overall quality of players.

I think it's an easy argument to say no Gomes would be seen as miles better. I agree with that, but my position is that would have been a viewpoint cemented in the last 6 months. Before that Gomes had very little on his CV to show he could cope at Centre Back and Holgate probably had more impressive performances at centre back than him.

 

[blueloon]

That’s as good as it gets for Astley , nearly 3 years the max he can get at his age. He’s the best young defender we’ve had come through in years, I would say he’s ahead of Feeney was at a similar age. He’s good enough to allow us take a risk and let both Browning and Feeney depart on loan , or whatever for Browning, in January.
Astley , Gibson and Ouzounidis could cover the CB positions. Reality is that all three are relativity young and inexperienced at U23s level compared to the Browning/ Feeney combination, so that may well affect our chances of winning the U23s League . I’d take that , particularly if it gave Astley and Gibson the chance to gain more development and exposure and allow us to see if they can fulfill the potential I think they’ve got.

 

[Pabbers]

I would say Coutinho, Firmino, Gomes, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Salah and Mane were all signed as players quite close to the age I identified (20-24) and all have really kicked on. My position is, up until around 18/19 we develop players very well but it goes skew after that (up to around 25 where we again start to do a bit better).

I agree on your latter point, which of course points too having a settled manager doesn't it?

If we use that age band, then we can add just as many players we have improved.....If we go back 10 years, we can probaly add more than what they can add.

Thats a different point really, and the issue we have with developing our academy graduates, EVERY team in the England is also having problems.

Its an English problem, as apposed to an Everton one, I think.

 

[Eggs]

I suppose we have to agree to disagree a bit. I hadn't seen a lot that differentiated Holgate to Gomes prior to this season. Gomes was largely untested and untrusted at centre back. This season Gomes has really kicked on though. Few of our young players seem to do that.

That being said, how good would Holgate look next to VVD?

...I think Gomez has always had great physicality. He has the power that Holgate lacks.