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Everton Youth Teams Thread

catcherintherye said:
That would be a contradiction, but it's not my argument. My position is Liverpool are undoubtedly better at developing players (certainly post Moyes) than we have. I would also say having a settled squad/manager filled with very good (in some cases World Class players) between the ages of 25-30 helps that development and can make a player look better than what he is. I think both of those things can be true at the same time. The gap exists, though it is probably made to look greater because of the overall quality of players.

I think it's an easy argument to say no Gomes would be seen as miles better. I agree with that, but my position is that would have been a viewpoint cemented in the last 6 months. Before that Gomes had very little on his CV to show he could cope at Centre Back and Holgate probably had more impressive performances at centre back than him.
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Again though, you're talking about their CVs while i'm talking about their talent. I'm saying it's no surprise that Gomez develops better than Holgate and Coutinho develops better than Deulofeu because they are better. Whether they've proven it or not is by the by, young players who haven't played a lot can't really prove anything, so I'm talking about players just being naturally more talented and therefore having a higher ceiling.

You cement my point in your other post, by naming a load of players who were already good and then claiming Liverpool have developed them better. If you're surprised that £40m Salah and £34m Mane have developed faster/better than £1.5m Calvert Lewin and £11m Lookman then you're going to be scratching your head for a long time to come. Unfortunately the likes of Liverpool, Spurs etc have been able to attract a much higher calibre of player than we have in recent times, so we're not really comparing like for like. In terms of our own academy graduates, I see no difference in development between ours and those at comparable clubs.
 
blueloon said:
That’s as good as it gets for Astley , nearly 3 years the max he can get at his age. He’s the best young defender we’ve had come through in years, I would say he’s ahead of Feeney was at a similar age. He’s good enough to allow us take a risk and let both Browning and Feeney depart on loan , or whatever for Browning, in January.
Astley , Gibson and Ouzounidis could cover the CB positions. Reality is that all three are relativity young and inexperienced at U23s level compared to the Browning/ Feeney combination, so that may well affect our chances of winning the U23s League . I’d take that , particularly if it gave Astley and Gibson the chance to gain more development and exposure and allow us to see if they can fulfill the potential I think they’ve got.
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Development > youth league titles

For me anyway.
 
Pabbers said:
If we use that age band, then we can add just as many players we have improved.....If we go back 10 years, we can probaly add more than what they can add.

Thats a different point really, and the issue we have with developing our academy graduates, EVERY team in the England is also having problems.

Its an English problem, as apposed to an Everton one, I think.
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My point is Everton produce players ready to be in a first team up to say 19/20/ We are actually pretty good 15-19/20 but poor after that. To me thats not really a problem of our academy.
 

blueloon said:
That’s as good as it gets for Astley , nearly 3 years the max he can get at his age. He’s the best young defender we’ve had come through in years, I would say he’s ahead of Feeney was at a similar age. He’s good enough to allow us take a risk and let both Browning and Feeney depart on loan , or whatever for Browning, in January.
Astley , Gibson and Ouzounidis could cover the CB positions. Reality is that all three are relativity young and inexperienced at U23s level compared to the Browning/ Feeney combination, so that may well affect our chances of winning the U23s League . I’d take that , particularly if it gave Astley and Gibson the chance to gain more development and exposure and allow us to see if they can fulfill the potential I think they’ve got.
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We’re never gonna give you up
So don’t say goodbye then
We’re going to be together forever
 
Lanolin said:
Again though, you're talking about their CVs while i'm talking about their talent. I'm saying it's no surprise that Gomez develops better than Holgate and Coutinho develops better than Deulofeu because they are better. Whether they've proven it or not is by the by, young players who haven't played a lot can't really prove anything, so I'm talking about players just being naturally more talented and therefore having a higher ceiling.

You cement my point in your other post, by naming a load of players who were already good and then claiming Liverpool have developed them better. If you're surprised that £40m Salah and £34m Mane have developed faster/better than £1.5m Calvert Lewin and £11m Lookman then you're going to be scratching your head for a long time to come. Unfortunately the likes of Liverpool, Spurs etc have been able to attract a much higher calibre of player than we have in recent times, so we're not really comparing like for like. In terms of our own academy graduates, I see no difference in development between ours and those at comparable clubs.
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Your position is that LFC had bought players who have underlying abilities that are fundamentally higher than the ones we've bought even if it can't be immediately seen. It's a fair point and certainly not without truth. I'm not sure it's always as simple as that though. I am more inclined to see that equivalent players would not develop to the same level.

My gut feeling, is had a Joe Gomez clone signed for us in the same season as he signed for them, the LFC player would have developed to a higher standard. There is also a point maybe their players have a higher ceiling, though not to the degree of the differential we have seen. I believe they have been able to utilise their potential far better and that's the core problem.
 
Lanolin said:
But you're contradicting your own argument there.

Either Gomez only looks good because he's in a good team, or Liverpool are better are at developing players than we are. It can't be both, and yet you're suggesting it is.

To me the difference between Holgate and Gomez is huge. Gomez looks like Stones did at that age, Holgate doesn't. I doubt there's a single neutral fan in the country who has seen them both and thought Holgate was better. Whether Holgate will develop later is obviously a different matter, but from the first time I saw Gomez I thought he looked a real talent, something I just don't get from Holgate. You appear to be talking about whether someone has proven themselves but that's a different argument I think. There are certain players who just scream quality and others who look like decent players who might improve with time, for me Gomez is one and Holgate the other.
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They bought gomez though and we bought Holgate, DCL, Lookman etc
Was the discussion not about players brought through the academy?
 

Nymzee said:
Must be lots of faith in Astley - not many scholars get offered that length of contract.
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And of course Arsenal were rumoured to be sniffing around. He’s worth it , no doubt about it.
Nymzee said:
Development > youth league titles

For me anyway.
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Well that could be another long discussion with differing views! There’s an argument that says developing two outstanding youngsters in a mediocre team that wins nothing is better than developing 11 good players who are average but a good enough team to win the league. As an example , the Chelsea U23s we beat 2-0 the other night had 5 or 6 very young players , some of whom have been outstanding at youth international level, yet they lost . If we win the league , players like Browning, Charsley, Broadhead and Sambou will have made a huge contribution, and hopefully will have good careers , but not with us. Winning titles with a few outstanding prospects would of course be ideal.
 
mightymoyes said:
Did you count stones in players we've brought through?
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In what sense?

There seems to be some confusion here I think. My position is that Everton’s record of nurturing young players is absolutely fine, and stands up to scrutiny against our rivals. Another poster was saying our players didn’t seem to develop as well as other clubs, and used examples of expensive imports to back up the claim. I’m saying I think that’s a bit unfair.

Honestly though, it’s all there like one page back where you can make up your mind whether you agree with me.
 

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