Everton Youth Teams Thread

[Eggs]

It's still insane that we moved Gordon to the first team squad and essentially stopped him from playing real football matches for 6 months right when he was hitting his stride.

....I think it’s a moot point describing U23s as ‘real football’ when lots close to it suggest it’s uncompetitive.

 

[catcherintherye]

Walsh is great, Bristol City have an extra year option but at a high wage. He will get a good Championship move.

I've been told twice recently the current u16 crop is the best generation in 5 years.

The 16's crop is very good. The 17's crop was on too (Onyango, Dobbin, Cannon etc) but 16's better.

 

[Eggs]

The 16's crop is very good. The 17's crop was on too (Onyango, Dobbin, Cannon etc) but 16's better.

...well, it’s about time we had a run in the FA Youth Cup.

interesting whether the aim is a ‘good crop‘ or a ‘single diamond’. The Osman/Hibbert year was certainly a good crop (FA Youth Cup winners) whilst the Rooney year was a ‘single diamond’ (FA Youth Cup runners-up).

 

[zzr45]

Watched a really good presentation yesterday by the FA player insight lead (hidden behind a subscription site that you need to be vetted for unfortunately or I'd share.) interesting on seeing how a number of youth teams are setup, with the simplified rule of giving the players with the most potential the most playing time. How they tend to be setup is giving players a rank of A-C on current ability (A highest) and 1-3 on potential (1 highest) and really what you are aiming for is to give your A,B,C 1's as much exposure as possible, with your A1's really looking to progress to either the next age group (play up a year) or seniors/out on loan etc.

I do wonder if our academy does suffer from being a bit too nice, think last year when Galloway and Browning were sat in spots - did that stop lads who had more potential making the step up, long after the aforementioned been deemed not up to scratch for the Senior team?

Where it is interesting is there's so much unseen stuff that goes on that really counts, stuff like Max Velocity over 10 yds which can either make or break a player, how important decision making is, is the player actually interested in playing football or just ghosting around.

That said, there was a study done that found Academy coaches could predict who would play Senior Handball with 79% accuracy, fans in the stands could with 73% accuracy. That little bit is obviously important.

 

[Lanolin]

People's obsession with Liam Walsh is really weird.

 

[Zatara]

Walsh is great, Bristol City have an extra year option but at a high wage. He will get a good Championship move.

I've been told twice recently the current u16 crop is the best generation in 5 years.

The 16's crop is very good. The 17's crop was on too (Onyango, Dobbin, Cannon etc) but 16's better.

...well, it’s about time we had a run in the FA Youth Cup.

interesting whether the aim is a ‘good crop‘ or a ‘single diamond’. The Osman/Hibbert year was certainly a good crop (FA Youth Cup winners) whilst the Rooney year was a ‘single diamond’ (FA Youth Cup runners-up).

Are Onyango + Dobbin in the 17s group? I see @catcherintherye mentions Cannon who ive read about on here but not much...are they the main 3 standouts of that group, any others?

That Onyango looks like he could be a top player in future based only on snippets and here lol but who knows?

Are the year below rated alot higher as a team as @Eggs mentioned that or a single (or couple) of standouts...

It would be nice now to have a couple of real stars emerge from the youth sides so we can get excited about them.

Were becoming a lot harder as a squad to break into thesedays so it will take someone special to come through.

 

[Nymzee]

Are Onyango + Dobbin in the 17s group? I see @catcherintherye mentions Cannon who ive read about on here but not much...are they the main 3 standouts of that group, any others?

That Onyango looks like he could be a top player in future based only on snippets and here lol but who knows?

Are the year below rated alot higher as a team as @Eggs mentioned that or a single (or couple) of standouts...

It would be nice now to have a couple of real stars emerge from the youth sides so we can get excited about them.

Were becoming a lot harder as a squad to break into thesedays so it will take someone special to come through.

You literally quote a post that tells you that haha.

 

[Barnfred 55]

If you go back a few years on this thread (or similar threads from the archive) you will see me waxing lyrical about Walsh as a 15 year old. He was a brilliant young player. He would absolutely run the game at youth level. There was one derby game, where we won 5-0 and could have been double that, where he was head and shoulders above his opponents. First touch, passing range, game intelligence was sublime.

The other side of all of this was a size factor though. I always felt if he made it here, it would be at probably 21. He was a tiny lad. I think you have to have a really brave and established manager to be prepared to throw a lad in, who's 5 ft 6 (now perhaps 5 ft 5/4 then) and weighs about 9 stone. The move from Martinez in an odd way probably didn't do him or any of the young players much good. The outlook of the club changed under Moshiri, it was more about instant success and power/experience were prioritised under Koeman/Allardyce for those 2 years.

I think we have to get better at sell on fees and buy backs, but in essence it's difficult. In the case of Lundstrom and Walsh both would have expired, and both moved down before coming up. What young players need is often 50 competitive games to find their feet and begin to work problems out. He is getting that now, but I'm not sure we, or most PL can really just give most young players 50 games.

The loan system is sort of a half way house. In some cases it works, but I always have my doubts as to how committed a young player is, when he knows deep down there is always the get out of going back to the PL club, facilities, support network etc at the end of it. Do you strive that bit harder, go that extra mile if you know there is no back up if it doesn't work out?

Walsh has done really well. He would do well to maybe do another at Coventry, maybe get promoted with them, and bigger clubs will come calling, as he has wonderful ability, far more so than most championship midfielders. I wish him well, but I doubt he'd have progressed at Everton.

It was a sad day for me when we sold him. As Nymz will no doubt verify

 

[Cameron Manning]

People's obsession with Liam Walsh is really weird.

If you’ve seen a lot of Liam during his time at Everton I’m surprised at that statement.

 

[ParisToffee]

What is the situation of the young keeper? Is there any with high expectations on under the age of Virginia who could step up as 3rd choice keeper? I hear huge expectations etc on Hansen and Leban?

 

[blueloon]

Watched a really good presentation yesterday by the FA player insight lead (hidden behind a subscription site that you need to be vetted for unfortunately or I'd share.) interesting on seeing how a number of youth teams are setup, with the simplified rule of giving the players with the most potential the most playing time. How they tend to be setup is giving players a rank of A-C on current ability (A highest) and 1-3 on potential (1 highest) and really what you are aiming for is to give your A,B,C 1's as much exposure as possible, with your A1's really looking to progress to either the next age group (play up a year) or seniors/out on loan etc.

I do wonder if our academy does suffer from being a bit too nice, think last year when Galloway and Browning were sat in spots - did that stop lads who had more potential making the step up, long after the aforementioned been deemed not up to scratch for the Senior team?

Where it is interesting is there's so much unseen stuff that goes on that really counts, stuff like Max Velocity over 10 yds which can either make or break a player, how important decision making is, is the player actually interested in playing football or just ghosting around.

That said, there was a study done that found Academy coaches could predict who would play Senior Handball with 79% accuracy, fans in the stands could with 73% accuracy. That little bit is obviously important.

Some interesting stuff there , thanks. Yep, we have a tradition of looking after our young players , much to our credit but sometimes to the detriment of younger players seeking their chance too, a difficult balance.

I like the A1 concept , taking your loose definition as “with your A1's really looking to progress to either the next age group (play up a year) “ then we’ve got more A1s , players playing up a year, than for many years across three age groups.
2nd years played in U23s : Astley, Quirk, Hughes,
1st Years played one u23s : Onyango, Dobbin, Higgins. (Cannon?)
u16s played at u18s : Welch, Small, Campbell, Butterfield , Whitaker, Price, Kouyate.
Plus some assorted goalkeepers , maybe a few I’ve missed and some who’ve missed out through injury.
There’s definitely been significant changes this season, right from the start we’ve had youngsters playing up, whereas in the past it was often left to the last few months of the season, it helps of course if they’ve got talent too.

 

[blueloon]

What is the situation of the young keeper? Is there any with high expectations on under the age of Virginia who could step up as 3rd choice keeper? I hear huge expectations etc on Hansen and Leban?

Harry Tyrer is I’d say ahead of Hansen, Barrett and Leban. All of them look good shot stoppers at this age but not surprisingly are prone to mistakes until they get more experience. None are ready for 3rd choice yet. There’s also two U16s who appear to be well thought of , can’t remember the names though.

 

[Lanolin]

If you’ve seen a lot of Liam during his time at Everton I’m surprised at that statement.

I didn’t see a lot of him here to be honest. I do know that he’ll likely be 23 by the next time he kicks a ball and has never performed at a higher level than league one though, and yet every couple of weeks someone suggests we buy him. There are hundreds of players who were brilliant in youth football but never made it higher than that level. The constant harking back to him and making up of facts (he wasn’t overtaken by Davies in some unfortunate quirk of fate, it was a conscious Choice by the coaches) is bizarre.

 

[Cameron Manning]

I didn’t see a lot of him here to be honest. I do know that he’ll likely be 23 by the next time he kicks a ball and has never performed at a higher level than league one though, and yet every couple of weeks someone suggests we buy him. There are hundreds of players who were brilliant in youth football but never made it higher than that level. The constant harking back to him and making up of facts (he wasn’t overtaken by Davies in some unfortunate quirk of fate, it was a conscious Choice by the coaches) is bizarre.

A lot of truth in what you say, especially about it being a conscious choice by the coaches to rate other players better, well I think injuries had some say in that, Liam had quite a few of those, speaking for myself I never saw a better player, coming through, than Liam, a player who understood the game, every aspect of it, a lad who hated losing, got upset with his team mates mistakes, even more upset with himself when he made a rick, I like Tom Davies and hope he keeps improving but I honestly think if Liam had stayed fit and got a game in the first team he would still be there, all he needed, like every player needs, was that little bit of luck.I think if fortune gives him a break he will be back where he deserves to be, in the premier league.

 

[Ring master]