Everton Youth Teams Thread

[funkygibson]

The impossible dream?

What it takes to make it as a professional footballer, and how you pick up the pieces if you don't

www.bbc.co.uk

On the same day in May 2019, Manchester United team-mates Marcus Rashford and Jesse Lingard posted the same cryptic message on Instagram.

It simply read ‘0.012%’ and was a reference to findings that only 180 of the 1.5m boys playing organised youth football in England will ever play a single minute in the Premier League.

That means there is slightly more chance of one of them making it into the top flight than being struck by lightning, but not by much.

The rewards are great if, like Rashford and Lingard, you reach the summit of your sport - but making it at any level is hard enough, as thousands of boys find out every year.

Told over the course of more than two decades, this is the story of just two of them, who found out the hard way what it takes and where you can go wrong, on a journey that begins in the footballing hotbeds of Merseyside and the North East and features every level from the glamour of the Premier League to the very grassroots.

A good read, this bit was particularly interesting when they looked back at all the players who had been at the U16s England trial and what became of them.

MARK MALEY (Sunderland, defender) 0 PL appearances, OVER? 21

A former England Schoolboys captain who made his senior debut for Sunderland aged 17, he was forced to retire when he was accidentally shot in the eye with an air pistol pellet by Sunderland team-mate John Oster. Did a degree in corrosion engineering, and set up a company inspecting offshore oil rigs with drones.

 

[catcherintherye]

Depends how you look at it really. How many academies have produced someone better than Rooney or Barkley was?

As I think you also said, it is sort of cyclical. The academy ges from 22 down to 17 were not particularly good. It wasn't helped by the managerial churn and a lot of short termism from certain managers which meant talented players like Baningime who had shown promise in the 1st team completely fell by the wayside. Even if we would have developed him to a comparable standing to what Tom Davies currently is, we are up to 9% and nearer half way.

As you say, next there's every chance we saw Gordon more heavily involved, as well as potentially Brainthwaite, Onyango and maybe even Small. Even if only 2 of that 4 get involved you are going to be close to 15%.

The slightly wider trend in this though is that we ended up bringing players in to cover a lot of slots. Specifically Holgate and DCL but to a lesser degree Godfrey and Richarlison who were all brought in as younger players.You always sense other tem get to count certain types of players more, when in reality they bring them in, but there's a reticence for us to do the same.

 

[Zatara]

A good read, this bit was particularly interesting when they looked back at all the players who had been at the U16s England trial and what became of them.

MARK MALEY (Sunderland, defender) 0 PL appearances, OVER? 21

A former England Schoolboys captain who made his senior debut for Sunderland aged 17, he was forced to retire when he was accidentally shot in the eye with an air pistol pellet by Sunderland team-mate John Oster. Did a degree in corrosion engineering, and set up a company inspecting offshore oil rigs with drones.

Apparently this happened in 2002 and they came to an out of court settlement in 2007.

Cant help wondering how much that was for.

 

[Terrarian]

A good read, this bit was particularly interesting when they looked back at all the players who had been at the U16s England trial and what became of them.

MARK MALEY (Sunderland, defender) 0 PL appearances, OVER? 21

A former England Schoolboys captain who made his senior debut for Sunderland aged 17, he was forced to retire when he was accidentally shot in the eye with an air pistol pellet by Sunderland team-mate John Oster. Did a degree in corrosion engineering, and set up a company inspecting offshore oil rigs with drones.

Oster shot him in the eye, jesus christ, how come we didn't here of this, he should have been jailed ffs.

 

[MikeH72]

Depends how you look at it really. How many academies have produced someone better than Rooney or Barkley was?

Rooney was 20 years ago and Barkley has amounted to the same as someone like Joe Allen.

 

[Lanolin]

Oster shot him in the eye, jesus christ, how come we didn't here of this, he should have been jailed ffs.

It was well reported at the time. From memory I think they were mates messing about with the gun at one of their houses and he got accidentally shot.

 

[Terrarian]

It was well reported at the time. From memory I think they were mates messing about with the gun at one of their houses and he got accidentally shot.

That's crazy, I don't remember it, I remember someone shooting something at someone, always thought it was Joey barton. Man that's a awful way to lose your career.

 

[Nymzee]

Rooney was 20 years ago and Barkley has amounted to the same as someone like Joe Allen.

That's not the point I'm making. Academy's can't churn out PL players every year and those we have produced are better than most other academies produce.

Would I love us to be top of the table and top of the acadamy mins % table? Yes. Am I arsed if we're fighting for Europe with hardly any academy players? Not even slightly arsed.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

Rooney was 20 years ago and Barkley has amounted to the same as someone like Joe Allen.

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Since 2010 only 13 players have gotten more England caps than Barkley. Of which only 6 could be classed as central midfielders and that includes Chamberlain who was a winger and Dier who now plays centre half. At a time when no one in England was producing central midfielders, Ross Barkley has a good case for being the best outside of Henderson for players born 90-96. He's not kicked on as he shouldve done but that's much more a Chelsea problem than ours.

If the bar for our academy's production is above that of Ross Barkley, then it will be a case of us only producing a player once every 20-30 years as a result

 

[MikeH72]

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Since 2010 only 13 players have gotten more England caps than Barkley. Of which only 6 could be classed as central midfielders and that includes Chamberlain who was a winger and Dier who now plays centre half. At a time when no one in England was producing central midfielders, Ross Barkley has a good case for being the best outside of Henderson for players born 90-96. He's not kicked on as he shouldve done but that's much more a Chelsea problem than ours.

If the bar for our academy's production is above that of Ross Barkley, then it will be a case of us only producing a player once every 20-30 years as a result

I’d argue it isn’t either, and is actually a Ross Barkley problem.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

I’d argue it isn’t either, and is actually a Ross Barkley problem.

It's both but considering Everton is getting the blame for not producing world class talent year after year it was easier to say Chelsea rather than the player. In reality Barkley is at fault for his own development or lack thereof but it's Chelsea's problem because they haven't got the most out of an England international who they spent 15 million and 100k + a week on. Barkley isn't the first or last player to join Chelsea and go backwards, you certainly can't blame Everton or our academy for that.

 

[blueblue]

Sorry , I don’t get this rose- tinted spectacles nostalgia for a reserve team and the old Central League. In those days there were few foreign players, the loan system as we now know it wasn’t anywhere near as well developed and not that many youngsters got there chance to play. Take your “ smattering of the best young lads”. So we have what 6 or 7 older first teamers playing , that leaves about 5 places left . With no loan system in place who would you pick ? Gordon, Simms, Branthwaite, Gibson and Beningime would be the obvious choices to get games. So what happens to the other regular U23s and those playing up from u18s? . Presumably they either don’t get a game at all or play against others the same age. And I can just hear Carlo saying “ Right James and Gbamin , you’re coming back from injury, I want you to help our youngsters by playing in the reserves. You might get kicked a bit but it’s character forming”

The current U23s set up is far from ideal , but at least youngsters are getting regular competitive games and a chance to develop.

I believe the gap between under 23 and first team is too great. It is too difficult for most young players to bridge the gap because there isn't a way to do it really without going out on loan.

The fact that clubs have to send young players on loan is an admission that the structure doesn't work.
Clubs have to send players away to try to get them ready and then for a length of time you lose control of the player

I don't think the loan deal for Lewis Gibson has done him much good, Barkley at Leeds,Virginia at Reading to name a couple more.

Playing with and against experienced players is the way to learn.
The old reserve structure did that to a degree, the new structure doesn't.

Who goes to watch under 23 games now?

 

[Lanolin]

I believe the gap between under 23 and first team is too great. It is too difficult for most young players to bridge the gap because there isn't a way to do it really without going out on loan.

The fact that clubs have to send young players on loan is an admission that the structure doesn't work.
Clubs have to send players away to try to get them ready and then for a length of time you lose control of the player

I don't think the loan deal for Lewis Gibson has done him much good, Barkley at Leeds,Virginia at Reading to name a couple more.

Playing with and against experienced players is the way to learn.
The old reserve structure did that to a degree, the new structure doesn't.

Who goes to watch under 23 games now?

Is that really the structure though, or just the game? It's a different world now, you just aren't going to get blokes from the other side of the world who are earning £100k a week busting a gut for the ressies on a quagmire in Southport in November.

 

[blueblue]

Is that really the structure though, or just the game? It's a different world now, you just aren't going to get blokes from the other side of the world who are earning £100k a week busting a gut for the ressies on a quagmire in Southport in November.

There is truth in that, but if they want to get back into the first team and to get another contract at Everton or somewhere else they will try to do well.

I think the young lads would benefit if they were playing in a team that had a Gbamin, Besic,Bernard, Iwobi or Mina playing alongside them now and then. They would also play against players with experience as well and that would benefit them.

The alternative is that premiership clubs will buy teams in the lower divisions and use them to give their players experience. They will at least have some control over them then.

 

[blueloon]

I believe the gap between under 23 and first team is too great. It is too difficult for most young players to bridge the gap because there isn't a way to do it really without going out on loan.

The fact that clubs have to send young players on loan is an admission that the structure doesn't work.
Clubs have to send players away to try to get them ready and then for a length of time you lose control of the player

I don't think the loan deal for Lewis Gibson has done him much good, Barkley at Leeds,Virginia at Reading to name a couple more.

Playing with and against experienced players is the way to learn.
The old reserve structure did that to a degree, the new structure doesn't.

Who goes to watch under 23 games now?

Well you haven’t really answered the salient questions I posed. If you believe the Central league was better in the past , that loans don’t work so we don’t send anybody out, then who are the 5 young players you’d have playing alongside Bolassie , Besic etc in this “ reserve” team and what would you do with the 16 or so other youngsters who are not playing?

There was constant criticism years ago that UK football was way behind the continent when it came to developing the skills of youngsters, that all we did was stick them in reserve teams and let them be kicked about by older , bigger players with no chance of developing their skills. Just because people have a nostalgia for the Central League doesn’t mean we should send our youngsters back to a structure that was at its peak in the 70s/ 80 s.