orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
Ah right, you're on the speculation train with no real understanding of the situation.
Never mind.
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Never mind.
Thuck ma Baws
Player Valuation: £8m
Agree with everything except for how easy it would be to get rid of him. Elstone isn't good enough to be at EFC. It will take ages to get rid of him though. Unless you want them to just ignore employee rights.
Kiwi
Say NO to Ginger Managers
That would be the same train that led him to be absolutely 100% ITK.
Can someone explain to me how giving someone a seat on the board of directors makes it easier to remove them as Chief Exec?
orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
No mate, I don't want them to ignore those rights at all. In the same way that Martinez getting £10m for failure was lamentable, it was also his contractual right.
What I'm saying is that are numerous ways for Elstone to be put under pressure to resign - he once completely contradicted his employers in a public inquiry, for goodness sake - but there is no appetite for it whatsoever, and that's the real problem.
orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
As soon as anyone mentioned the 'waiting for Godot' Usmanov tosh they out themselves as getting all their information from one post from the Big Boys Playground (aka TheEvertonForum).
It just amazes me that people are prepared to ignore the evidence of the first six months of the Moshiri 'era'. You try listening to the Echo podcast and it is sensible debate all the way through then pow, Tony Scott starts shouting that 'anyone who can't see the evidence is just stupid'... without offering any evidence at all. Quality journalism.
Thuck ma Baws
Player Valuation: £8m
You're right. He's the public face of failure at EFC and to be fair to him he plays the role without complaint. I'm sure the money helps but he's the one who takes all the flak for every poor business decision at the club, including now a poor transfer window. Why would they want him gone when he's such a good deflector?
Despite that though I think the patience of the new regime, regardless of how serious you think they are to make big investments in the club, might not stretch as far as the last. I think he'll be gone before Moshiri is, put it that way.
Kiwi
Say NO to Ginger Managers
Not sure if you heard any of the presidential debate but that was near exactly what Trump was doing. Throw around buzzwords and contradict and shout over when Clinton had her say.
Clinton still has the personality of a wet fish and is a dreadful liar, but is the lesser of the evils.
Sounds about right behaviour-wise for the Big Blouses Playground if you ask me.
orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
The very same people are now in the Stadium thread defending Joe Anderson against 'slurs on his character'. Mesmerising.
toffeeblue9
Player Valuation: £35m
I'm all for being even-handed as far as the evidence is concerned, but I'm not sure how it supports your argument.
As far as I can see - the hard facts are as follows...
Moshiri buys 49.9% of Everton's shares
Everton sack under-performing manager and his back room team at a cost of over £10m
Everton appoint Koeman and a new back room team at considerable further cost
Moshiri agrees funding for Goodison Park "face lift", a plan which had been kicking around the fans forum etc for a few years
Everton release a number of players on free transfers
Everton sign Stekelenburg, Gueye, Williams and Bolasie for a reported combined cost of around £44.5m - plus whatever we've had to pay out for agents fees and signing bonuses etc
Everton sell John Stones for a reported fee of £47.5m
Everton sign Enner Valencia on a season-long loan
Everton agree a loan facility (unless I've missed it, there is no confirmation whether the facility itself has been used)
I'm going to assume nobody is going to dispute any of that as we have physical proof that all of those have happened
Then we have the more anecdotal evidence:
Zenit confirm that Everton made the biggest offer for Witsel, but the player turned the move down
Napoli confirm Everton's offer for Koulibaly
Napoli confirm Everton's offer for Gabbiadini
Lyon confirm Everton's offer for Ghezzal
Sunderland confirm Everton's offer for Kone
Deportivo confirm Everton's offer for Lucas Perez, the player opts to join Arsenal
Sissoko confirms Everton's offer on transfer deadline day
Joe Anderson confirms a new stadium for Everton has "never been closer" and funding "is no longer a problem"
He's been here 6 months or so - on the balance of the available evidence, I'd say more has happened in that period than probably happened the previous few years combined. I don't really understand the need for pessimism. The only thing which has gone wrong so far is missing out on a number of confirmed transfer targets in the summer. Why that happened, in a number of cases, is cause for speculation, with precious little evidence.
orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
Wait, hang on, you've just done EXACTLY that!
Record TV deal that destroys anything previous to it, still manage to underspend.
Everton appoint Koeman and a new back room team at considerable further cost - "considerable cost" - but no-one knows how much. £10m? £15m maximum. Again, speculation.
And then, as you admit yourself, the rest is entirely anecdotal evidence. How on earth do you work out that "more has happened in that period than probably happened the previous few years combined"? We bought some players, sold another, brought in a new manager. See Martinez 2013 where we, er, lost one manager, got a new manager brought in some players, sold some players.
You're completely ignoring the weird - and it was very weird - Jim White texting debacle and the mysterious loan facility with our old Friends.
"plus whatever we've had to pay out for agents fees and signing bonuses etc" - again, speculation. Every club has to do this, we're not special or better for having done it.
People see it as negativity but it's realism, it's an acknowledgement of facts that are in the public domain, nothing more than that.
Why do you think that mate?
Your second main paragraph is stating confirmation from sources other than Everton.
Would be nice to here directly from the club some kind of roadmap from the owner in regards to stadium, players etc
toffeeblue9
Player Valuation: £35m
1) TV deal - yep, but we have a record TV deal every few years. Wages always increase as a result. I'll touch on this again at the end
2) Everton's new backroom team. Only reported figure has been £5m compensation that we had to pay Southampton for Koeman and his team - https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ger-ronald-koeman-5m-compensation-southampton - so we are to assume that the cost of sacking El Loco and co plus the cost of bringing in a new team was north of £15m
3) Yep, I think it's important to separate anecdotal evidence - all I would say on this is that the anecdotal stuff has a general theme of Everton making sizeable offers for players over the summer. That's probably at odds with previous years where the anecdotal reports have been of us struggling to scrape together money for targets and/or loan deals.
4) The Jim White thing. Well, yeah, it's weird. Jim White isn't personally the man I'd choose to have as my mate in the media, but Moshiri seems to be his buddy, so fair enough. I'm not going to hold it against him, it doesn't really make much difference either way. It is odd though, granted.
5) Whatever we've spent in signing bonuses/agents fees etc - It wasn't meant to be separating us from the pack, merely pinpointing areas which we have spent money in over the last few months. I'm not trying to suggest we've spent more or less than our fair share here.
The TV deal is a fair point to raise but essentially I think that most of the criticism boils down to what happened in the transfer window. Everton made a number of sizeable bids for different players, we are led to believe, confirmed by the clubs of those players. The vast majority of those were not successful. And that's the crux of it. The anecdotal evidence suggests we tried but failed - that, if true, seems more a question of other issues at the club than finance, which are issues that Moshiri must also address TBF, but are slightly different to the ones he's vaguely being accused of in some quarters.
It is also suggested that a stadium plan is not a million miles away, again the financing part has anecdotally been suggested is not an issue at all. Whilst the lack of publicly available information on the stadium progress might be frustrating, you can hardly blame the club or Moshiri for not releasing information until there is something concrete to show people (not literally like).
On the balance of the available hard evidence and the anecdotal stuff, I'm not panicking - things seem to be heading in the right direction, whilst accepting that there is plenty of room for improvement in almost every area. I think anyone proclaiming him as a saviour or as a fraud is overreacting at the moment. It's early days.
If we get to this time next year and there has been no progress on the stadium and no sign of increased funding in the team, I'll start to worry as that would be 3 transfer windows and 18 months down the line.