Farhad Moshiri

[Dharma bum411]

We played perfectly fine at City, and not many teams will get a point there this season. The team were given a big ovation at the final whistle and there were no boos at all from the travelling fans. Everyone acknowledged it was a good game and a good effort by all involved.

Yep, one game will tell us everything about the rest of the season. The good thing is that there were no boos. Maybe the supporters will actually learn something from this game, the players probably not so much because it's one game. But let's over exaggerate.

 

[Khalekan]

We played perfectly fine at City, and not many teams will get a point there this season. The team were given a big ovation at the final whistle and there were no boos at all from the travelling fans. Everyone acknowledged it was a good game and a good effort by all involved.

We did not play "perfectly fine" at City.

We were under siege and escaped with an unlikely point.

I am a veteran of enough such backs to the wall encounters on the road over the years to know that the travelling fans would have been punching the air with relief and cheering to the rafters when the whistle blew.

Heck, I did the same thing watching on TV

But as an overall performance?

It was awful and it was torture to watch......with Stek and Ash standing between us and a good hiding.

 

[DerbyshireAndHarper]

Yep, one game will tell us everything about the rest of the season. The good thing is that there were no boos. Maybe the supporters will actually learn something from this game, the players probably not so much because it's one game. But let's over exaggerate.

I have no idea what kind of over-exaggerating you're talking about. Khalekan posted that we played badly in this game. That's what I was responding to. I am not claiming anything at all beyond that we played okay and the fans at the game were happy with the performance.

It also wasn't just 'one game'. We drew with Spurs too. And we've had a good start to the season. We're never going to win every game, nor were we going to go unbeaten. All teams slip up at times, even the better teams.

 

[DerbyshireAndHarper]

We did not play "perfectly fine" at City.

We were under siege and escaped with an unlikely point.

I am a veteran of enough such backs to the wall encounters on the road over the years to know that the travelling fans would have been punching the air with relief and cheering to the rafters when the whistle blew.

Heck, I did the same thing watching on TV

But as an overall performance?

It was awful and it was torture to watch......with Stek and Ash standing between us and a good hiding.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I was there at the match. They dominated the first half and we held our own in the second half.

We deservedly took the lead. You forgot to mention that.

I'm also a veteran of enough (30+ years going the match) to know that was a decent performance away from home against a much better side than we currently are, mainly due to the 100s of millions more they've spent on their team's players.

It was light years ahead of the 'awful' performances we had under Martinez.

But hey, it's all about opinions, as they say.

 

[Woolly Blue]

It is possible that no debt has been cleared overall - long term debt (Pru) replaced by short term debt (now 2 years RMF outstanding charges). Also, as there is no sign of a share issue as yet, any money put in by BHHL will be way of loan, albeit unsecured, so there is a distinct possibility that debt has increased.
Just sayin.

To minimise capital injection at this point in time. In a previous post, I was rather hoping for a response to how the Pru debt was paid off, but to no avail.
Capital hasn't been created to pay off this debt so that leaves 3 possibilties- cash grenerated by profit, sale of assets (unlikely if transfers were on the same terms), or further debt from a third party source, either RMF or BHHL.
Take your pick really but imho the further debt is the most likely source.

I admire your optimism, but if you take the view that compensation payments for Martinez and Koeman come in at about 18mil, Pru loan was at about 20 mil and if (to my mind big if) last year's RMF loan has been paid off and assuming a similar level to the previous loan of 20 mil, then you are suggesting that the club has found 58mil without having to borrow. I find this difficult to believe.
If BHHL does fund anything, it is a loan until the share capital is upped on a rights issue.
Convince me I'm wrong.

I'm with you on this HC.

While it's quite possible that Moshiri has made a cash injection into the club, to be able to write off this debt, until we've seen the evidence, I'm not going to rely on what someone's mate says, after all, with respect to all concerned, mates have been wrong before.

One possibility is an interest free loan to be replaced by an issue of equity at a later date, but there's no evidence of said interest free loan and I'm just thinking out loud here.

Time will tell, and while it's fun to theorise etc, our thoughts on the subject matter diddly squat.

 

[hibbo'sclass]

Moshiri paid off one long outstanding debt, that had been in place for 14 years and had just had service payments during that time.

We still have some debt - all clubs do - but it's a major positive that the Prudential loan was paid off. Some people just want to look for something to moan about when there's nothing there.

Moshiri has paid nothing off, Blue Heaven Holdings Limited has assuming that that is the source of funds. This is in the form of a loan, apparently unsecured as no charge registered. The loan from BHHL probably being used as part of the consideration for a rights issue if and when it happens.
The most important thing about the Pru loan being paid off is that it opens the door for the options held by BHHL to be excercised.
Once exercised BHHL will have about 73% of the issued shares. At that point a rights issue of 1:1 is possible, underwritten by BHHL which would lead them to acquire the shares for unexercised options.
I am not moaning, I am taking a cold hard look at things as I see them, and I am more than happy at the way things are progressing. I am putting forward an alternative view to what people want to believe, and as I have said before, if I am wrong I will admit it and eat humble pie.

 

[hibbo'sclass]

I'm with you on this HC.

While it's quite possible that Moshiri has made a cash injection into the club, to be able to write off this debt, until we've seen the evidence, I'm not going to rely on what someone's mate says, after all, with respect to all concerned, mates have been wrong before.

One possibility is an interest free loan to be replaced by an issue of equity at a later date, but there's no evidence of said interest free loan and I'm just thinking out loud here.

Time will tell, and while it's fun to theorise etc, our thoughts on the subject matter diddly squat.

You posted this as I was writing my response to being a moaner so I didn't plagiarise at all.

PS you know I'm OCD about legal entities, so please do not conflate Moshiri and BHHL - could end up in a corner being a tin of peas!

 

[Bullet]

The most important thing about the Pru loan being paid off is that it opens the door for the options held by BHHL to be excercised.

In your opinion is the exercising of options a likely reason for the Pru pay off?
I've always assumed the said exercising could be based on some milestone being reached regarding the new stadium so could we be approaching something definitive?
I know this is all speculation but that's what we do on here.

 

[hibbo'sclass]

In your opinion is the exercising of options a likely reason for the Pru pay off?
I've always assumed the said exercising could be based on some milestone being reached regarding the new stadium so could we be approaching something definitive?
I know this is all speculation but that's what we do on here.

I would be lying if I claimed to know, so it could be a milestone thing, but my understanding was that it was not possible to change ownership whilst the Pru loan was in place, but this was on the basis that the clauses preventing this were included in the other charges in favour of the Pru (Everton Investments Limited from memory and possibly GPSL). Frustratingly, the documentation for the EFC charge was not viewable at Co's House.
Would put a smiley up but my phone does weird things!

 

[Creature]

We did not play "perfectly fine" at City.

We were under siege and escaped with an unlikely point.

I am a veteran of enough such backs to the wall encounters on the road over the years to know that the travelling fans would have been punching the air with relief and cheering to the rafters when the whistle blew.

Heck, I did the same thing watching on TV

But as an overall performance?

It was awful and it was torture to watch......with Stek and Ash standing between us and a good hiding.

As a veteran of many years you should also remember the amount of times Big Nev saved the day both home and away. No, I'm not comparing the keepers, just the fact there is a means to an end. In this case we got a point that in previous years, to a team that is certainly ahead in skill and attacking prowess, we would have come away with a heavy defeat.

So yes, the tactics, on the day, from our standpoint we're fine.

In a season or so we may expect more but atm this is where we are.

 

[Baines' left foot]

Wake up and smell the coffee guys, the man is a fraud.

 

[Khalekan]

As a veteran of many years you should also remember the amount of times Big Nev saved the day both home and away. No, I'm not comparing the keepers, just the fact there is a means to an end. In this case we got a point that in previous years, to a team that is certainly ahead in skill and attacking prowess, we would have come away with a heavy defeat.

So yes, the tactics, on the day, from our standpoint we're fine.

In a season or so we may expect more but atm this is where we are.

It is debateable if the tactics were fine or not.

According to many on here, the team was actually a fairly attacking one, set up to hit on swift counter attacks, hence Del being deployed on the opposite wing to Bolassie to support Rom.

But if that was the intended tactic it failed miserably as we could barely get the ball to the boys up front and when we did, Bolasie was wasteful on all but one occasion and Del kept getting caught offside.

According to others the intention was to park the bus and hope for the best.

If that was the plan then it worked....but only by default as a team missing two penalties against us is unprecedented in my recall.

So, no.

I am sorry but I do not see Saturday's draw as a tactical masterclass.....it was a great point but a very lucky point.

And it came on the back of two very disappointing results and performances. I doubt anyone would disagree with that.

Two points from the last nine......and performances which merited no more than that.

Some on here should take the blinkers off and admit, if only to themselves, that the City game was ninety minutes of torture, which we all endured rather than enjoyed and we all heaved a massive sigh of relief when it was all over.

It was not, however, a great performance.

But it is time to move on and focus on Burnley later today.

Here's hoping we start picking up wins again

 

[gorgeousgeorgeEFC]

The bottom line is: by Premier League standards, Farhad Moshiri is skint.

He isn't even worth as much as Sunderland's majority shareholder Ellis Short.

 

[DerbyshireAndHarper]

The bottom line is: by Premier League standards, Farhad Moshiri is skint.

He isn't even worth as much as Sunderland's majority shareholder Ellis Short.

Firstly, he is not 'skint'. He is worth £1.6 BILLION, which is more than 48 times what Bill Kenwright is worth (£33m).

Secondly, you completely miss the point. There's a LOT of difference between an owner worth £33m and an owner worth £1.6 BILLION, but there is not much difference (as mad as it sounds) between an owner worth £1.6 BILLION and an owner worth £2.4 BILLION. There is only so much you can spend on a club during any one period due to FFP rules. And also some owners don't want to spend to improve their club (Southampton, Sunderland). And some owners simply can't attract people to their club, no matter how 'rich' the owner is (Southampton, Sunderland). What having a billionaire owner does is give you access to another market, and also it becomes more about who you know at that point, in terms who can help you progress. 'Money knows Money' is the old saying. The type of circles Moshiri moves in will be different than the type of circles Kenwright moves in.

Has Ellis Short's richer personal wealth helped Sunderland progress better than Everton? He's owned them for the last 8 years. They look odds-on at this point to finally get relegated this season.

Moshiri has already done great things for this club and will do even more in the next 3-5 years.

Anyone claiming 'he's a fraud' at this point is simply trolling for a reaction. What Moshiri has already done is pretty damn clear to see, between the new management structure, the first major upgrade of Goodison Park for 23 years, the tangible progress on the new stadium front. Clubs don't have their full board (who live all around the country) and the mayor of the city all meet at a derelict site just for a laugh. Clearly, something major is happening behind the scenes.

 

[Moomin]

His name is a anagram of " Fraud most likely "