Farhad Moshiri

[tirion]

Reduce the scale of the project. That'd be an option. If the council are being drawn into this then we as a club might as well benefit from it more than simply picking up lower interest rates. The club are the only real driver for that regeneration of the north end of the city so we should get a better deal than this. And the city would benefit from sharing revenue. Or just walk away from this as a plan that is too much of a risk.

I suspect if prevailing economic winds get worse then we'd have to revisit those options as a matter of course.

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[davek]

He won’t gain on the debt, because it’s an interest free loan. Even if he recalls it, it will basically be the money he put in.

He will most likely gain on the shares, but only if the club is successful. He won’t gain if he “destroys” us, as you put it, because why would anyone buy a club off him that is in ruins?

Your argument that he wants to profit from us and ruin us don’t really run in parallel, because profit comes with success (to a point) and sustainability - he knows that’s what we need to achieve.

Whether he’s capable or not is another question.

Exactly, he'll con=vert the debt to shares and take a greater proportion of any sale.

And we dont have to be a success to get sold on. Where City a success when they had their new ground built for them before being sold? The likelihood of us getting a Mansour and taking care of everything being nil.

 

[roydo]

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A popular misconception that.

 

[bring the ghost on]

And we dont have to be a success to get sold on. Where City a success when they had their new ground built for them before being sold? The likelihood of us getting a Mansour and taking care of everything being nil.

Well, this is a contradiction. You say you don’t have to be a success to be acquire at value, but then you say that will never happen to us anyway.

So, if we do disregard that, there surely does have to be growth and stability there for Moshiri to realise his investment.

If we’re lingering in the Championship and saddles with debt for a stadium which we can’t fill, no one wil buy the club from him.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Reduce the scale of the project. That'd be an option. If the council are being drawn into this then we as a club might as well benefit from it more than simply picking up lower interest rates. The club are the only real driver for that regeneration of the north end of the city so we should get a better deal than this. And the city would benefit from sharing revenue. Or just walk away from this as a plan that is too much of a risk.

I suspect if prevailing economic winds get worse then we'd have to revisit those options as a matter of course.

We can't tell if they have already scaled back the plans. (or are planning to) It should be easy enough to build a 60k identikit stadium similar to the Cardiff City one for around 150-200 million mark. If they want it to be a bit more tasteful/intricate in design they must know they can afford it. I'd imagine all options are on the table at the moment, I can't see Moshiri green lighting anything that will put us 600-800 million in debt.

 

[People75]

Let's see. Soo far he has been unlucky with his managers, and made some creative manuvers, regarding some loans, in the club.

Hardly the end of the world.

i had hoped for more progress, to be honest.

But let's see

 

[davek]

Well, this is a contradiction. You say you don’t have to be a success to be acquire at value, but then you say that will never happen to us anyway.

So, if we do disregard that, there surely does have to be growth and stability there for Moshiri to realise his investment.

If we’re lingering in the Championship and saddles with debt for a stadium which we can’t fill, no one wil buy the club from him.

I dont. I say that Moshiri need not have to wait until we're a success in order to sell up. We could be a success but a sale would not necessarily be a consequence of that.

 

[davek]

We can't tell if they have already scaled back the plans. (or are planning to) It should be easy enough to build a 60k identikit stadium similar to the Cardiff City one for around 150-200 million mark. If they want it to be a bit more tasteful/intricate in design they must know they can afford it. I'd imagine all options are on the table at the moment, I can't see Moshiri green lighting anything that will put us 600-800 million in debt.

But we're already up to £500M as an estimate and there isn't even a PP asked for yet! Most clubs in recent years state an initial cost and you can add 100% on that as a final cost.

The pressure will be for a statement on that site and the costs will go through the roof. Trouble is, Moshiri wont give a flying one because he wont be around to see the club pay it off.

 

[The binman chronicles]

But we're already up to £500M as an estimate and there isn't even a PP asked for yet! Most clubs in recent years state an initial cost and you can add 100% on that as a final cost.

The pressure will be for a statement on that site and the costs will go through the roof. Trouble is, Moshiri wont give a flying one because he wont be around to see the club pay it off.

That initial estimate appears to be one without an official design, if the true estimate comes back and says it's going to be > 600 million I would expect a change of design/capacity.

As @bring the ghost is saying if the stadium comes in too high he won't be able to move on without taking a big loss. It is in his interests to leave us financially stable. If you were selling your house and the kitchen needed replacing you would pick up a budget one from B&Q to maximise the profits, if he does go for the > 500M option he is far more likley to stay as any stadium on the docks would boost his share value and the cheaper the structure the more he would benefit.

 

[davek]

That initial estimate appears to be one without an official design, if the true estimate comes back and says it's going to be > 600 million I would expect a change of design/capacity.

As @bring the ghost is saying if the stadium comes in too high he won't be able to move on without taking a big loss. It is in his interests to leave us financially stable. If you were selling your house and the kitchen needed replacing you would pick up a budget one from B&Q to maximise the profits, if he does go for the > 500M option he is far more likley to stay as any stadium on the docks would boost his share value and the cheaper the structure the more he would benefit.

You're analogy is flawed. To make sense it'd have to be him paying the instalments. He's not. WTF would it mean to him if we had to pay off over 25 years or 40 years when he'd be well gone by then? That'll be the next regime's problem.

 

[bring the ghost on]

I dont. I say that Moshiri need not have to wait until we're a success in order to sell up. We could be a success but a sale would not necessarily be a consequence of that.

“Success” obviously means different things to different fans.

I’m not saying we need win the league for him to sell up, but if he going to realise his investment then from a business POV he needs to leave the club in a better state than he found it for the buyer to want to pay more than Moshiri paid.

 

[bring the ghost on]

WTF would it mean to him if we had to pay off over 25 years or 40 years when he'd be well gone by then? That'll be the next regime's problem.

The next regime won’t blindly buy a club with unsustainable debt whilst Moshiri rides off into the sunset though.

 

[joey_macmo]

The next regime won’t blindly buy a club with unsustainable debt whilst Moshiri rides off into the sunset though.

It’s as if the debt level affects the value Moshiri would get for his shares.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

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davek makes us millions mate. Don't tell him, he might want a share.

 

[davek]

“Success” obviously means different things to different fans.

I’m not saying we need win the league for him to sell up, but if he going to realise his investment then from a business POV he needs to leave the club in a better state than he found it for the buyer to want to pay more than Moshiri paid.

But how would he do that if we're left with a mountain of stadium debt to pay off and all our assets secured by outside parties? Thats worse off than we were when he arrived from a governance perspective. The stadium would be built and there'd be a buyer for the club, but they'd take it on only if the industry was in good shape - and that wouldn't change our circumstances unless that new buyer was a mega rich individual.

I appreciate a chance has to be taken by the club but I'm unconvinced that what's being proposed thus far is in the long term interests of Everton.