Financial Fair Play investigation

[Goat]

I'm just annoyed the bung we paid to Burnley for McNeil to get them off our back didn't work and actually put us more in the crap.

And to think we "gave" Leeds Joel Robles as well.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

One more note if I may. A League like the Premier League should really have a Sanctions regime in place from the outset of the 1st 3 year period. It all seems ad hoc and chaotic even if IMO the decision to refer and test is the correct one.

In the Football League Championship, which has the same rules as the PL btw save for loss limits and maybe stricter Covid limits it seems to be as follows:

£1-1.999m= 3 points
£2m-3.999m= 4 points
£4-5.999m= 5 points
£6-7.999m= 6 points
£8-9.99m= 7 points
£10-12.499m= 8 points
£12.5-15m=9 points

Anything over £15m seems to be a 12 point deduction. In reality there can be some haggling, suspended aspects etc.

Then the League can push for up to 9 for aggravating factors. ie Bad faith etc.

Think one of them e.g. maybe trajectory of losses.

Birmingham lost £9.8m above limits in 3 years to 2018. Which is 7 pts. Their losses were higher each year which got 3 more but they got one back for cooperation.

Sheffield Wednesday got their 12 point one halved due to EFL failings too but given their losses went up like Birmingham they should've got 3 more added to the halved I think.

Everton if losses falling maybe a couple off.

 

[Villa_Fan]

I agree with your rationale really, but we will see.

I also agree with you that this is not a conspiracy against Everton. To me it's a complicated set of rules, governing an area of company performance that is disputed (across all sectors) at a unique time for businesses, ran by a regulator who is not up to the job. So you get ludicrous outcomes. Its not conspiracy though, its structure flaws alongside culture arrogance/ineptitude.

I agree. Also, another significant factor is that over time it has become more evident how much the clubs that got lucky with the timing (Chelsea and City) have had the unintended consequence of benefitting from FFP and this annoys a lot of the fan bases of other clubs. But, the issue needed to be addressed and the PL needed to pick a point in time to implement new regulatory measures and some got lucky. The problem with FFP is that it isn't evolving as quickly as it needs to be to take into account the changing world of football finance.

 

[mahermi1]

I feel like we need a flowchart.

Did Everton break the rules.
Yes.
Who was at fault, the Premier League or Everton.
Yes

Kenwright, Moshiri and the board should be punished, they are the transgressers. You can't punish the fans...or is that only the big six ?

 

[Goodisongang]

Should just say to the fa, listen grasses well just get uncle uzzy back sponsoring us again if thats what you want & sort some of the losses out.

Rats

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Should just say to the fa, listen grasses well just get uncle uzzy back sponsoring us again if thats what you want & sort some of the losses out.

Rats

Dunno how serious the post is but that could cause more issues than it resolves.

As a Related/Associated Party and substance over form rules, perhaps scope in an FFP context to investigate some bits there too, ie the Naming Rights Option.

 

[Davideeyore]

Just listening to Talking The Blues as I do before bed to give me laughs and nightmares in equal measure. Although we don't know if Everton have broken any financial rules, the losses speak for themselves. I hope that we prove to the contrary that we haven't broken any rules and complied with the PL. Yet, as guilty as Boris Johnson is we all know our club is run by frauds, why should our football club and us the fans be punished for the sins of the idiots running the club?

We've distanced ourselves from Fathead, narcissist and birdbrain. Surely they should be punished for their incompetencies and negligence in charge of Everton Football Club? Imagine if we were docked points. What a stain on the football club.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just listening to Talking The Blues as I do before bed to give me laughs and nightmares in equal measure. Although we don't know if Everton have broken any financial rules, the losses speak for themselves. I hope that we prove to the contrary that we haven't broken any rules and complied with the PL. Yet, as guilty as Boris Johnson is we all know our club is run by frauds, why should our football club and us the fans be punished for the sins of the idiots running the club?

We've distanced ourselves from Fathead, narcissist and birdbrain. Surely they should be punished for their incompetencies and negligence in charge of Everton Football Club? Imagine if we were docked points. What a stain on the football club.

With respect that's how it works.

Sanctions in the form of points and embargoes not only serves to punish the wrongdoing/errors but serves to vindicate the correct.

The fact that it can also deter others if major should not be overlooked either. Derby were punished in an exemplary manner by the League e.g. or the League pushed for i4 anyway. Reading also got a moderate initial deduction hut some quite stringent follow-up conditions with the same again if any of certain conditions failed and the suspended deduction would not mitigate or offset against any further punishments for breaching spending rules or the Business Plan.

Fail would mean a punishment for that plus suspended -6 being activated.

 

[Swartzy]

I think a points deduction is highly unlikely, I expect, if found guilty, the penalty will be a transfer ban or embargo or a European football ban

Surely not a European football ban, not sure how we would ever survive such a catastrophe.
( That would do about as much harm to us right now as it would if you gave it to 'River Plate' )

 

[FellisElbow]

These are of course possible outcomes, but you are living in LaLa land if you don’t think there’s a real possibility of a pints dedication (or some other sporting sanction).

they will ask if there has been a sporting advatage gained, if there has been, there’s a real real chance of a sporting punishment as a result.

Can't think of a worse punishment than a pints dedication.

 

[Gareth Gibson]

Surely the Premier League shouldn't be looking to impose a points deduction on a club that is striving to stay within the parameters of the loss limits.

Surely they should be looking to impose points deductions on all those clubs who sought to destroy the Premier League by forming a European Super League.

 

[Gareth Gibson]

The issue is mate, that for 8 teams, there is a very clear conflict of interest. So it doesnt matter what is fair, or correct, or legal, as they are clearly biased operators.

I'm not having a go at them, lets be fair, we would both be the same with our clubs.

But it's why having a body, composed of those club, to audit, act as a regulator, a prosecutor and effectively judge/jury on these matters is not appropriate.

There needs to be better separation and impartiality (or some impartiality).

Excellent point.

Sadly.

 

[Yarrgh]

How about we wait for all the facts to come out, before we start rushing to commit Hari Kari ?

No. Hari Kari now! Mournful regret over recklessness later.

 

[Goodisongang]

Surely the Premier League shouldn't be looking to impose a points deduction on a club that is striving to stay within the parameters of the loss limits.

Surely they should be looking to impose points deductions on all those clubs who sought to destroy the Premier League by forming a European Super League.

Ahhh this so much.

Little fine for the absolute dog teams who tried to ruin English football and make their own league, points deductions for a team who have just spent very badly but to no benefit of their own and no implications to anyone else, as we spent that bad.

I still don't think it will be anything other than a fine, city won the league at the expense of others, we barely stayed in the prem!!!

 

[WestStandLower]

There is absolutely no suggestion that Everton’s accounts are not accurate or indeed the auditors haven’t reported correctly.

What Everton have been charged with is in simply spending more than their income and any allowances suggested they could spend.There isn’t any statutory requirement to limit monies an owner a benefactor or whoever puts in its simply a matter for the PL to process in accordance with their arbitrary rule book.

this is simply incredible


Underpay your taxes online? HMRC might not query them, but that doesn't mean for one moment that they’ve been accepted.

Now, there’s every chance we’re innocent, but your argument is sadly a fool’s argument.

I worked for HMRC ( Inland Revenue as it was ) at the time it was introducing Self Assessment. Ironically at the time of its conception it was called Simplified Assessment, the mantra was File now Check Later and that is exactly what happens with the annual accounts that clubs submit to the PL

Premier Income is accepted almost on trust when the FA receive the subs from the clubs there will be a deeper look at the big deals and most of the commercial deals can easily be identified as being clearly at distance and of course not being for stupid money it in terms of the other income streams such as TV and player trading these really are not difficult to plot and based on the fact that the PL get a return from each club after every game in terms of attendances the modelling that the PL almost certainly use will flag up issues.

But if a club undertake the sort of deception that City are alleged to have instigated they won’t be uncovered until something triggers an investigation such as the infamous email leaks. Even then if a club doesn’t engage in a transparent and open way these type of matters can take ages