Financial Fair Play investigation

[brieverton]

A fine would be the least worst scenario, but that comes out of money we already don't have. Would be interesting to know if this can be offset against future transfer spending.

A transfer ban or even a minimal points deduction don't bear thinking about in our situation.

The worst thing is how drawn out this is going to be. It will overshadow, to a degree, feelings of relief if we stay up.

It feels like death by a thousand cuts supporting this club at present. It's just one thing after another.

 

[blulouie]

There is absolutely no suggestion that Everton’s accounts are not accurate or indeed the auditors haven’t reported correctly.

What Everton have been charged with is in simply spending more than their income and any allowances suggested they could spend.There isn’t any statutory requirement to limit monies an owner a benefactor or whoever puts in its simply a matter for the PL to process in accordance with their arbitrary rule book.



I worked for HMRC ( Inland Revenue as it was ) at the time it was introducing Self Assessment. Ironically at the time of its conception it was called Simplified Assessment, the mantra was File now Check Later and that is exactly what happens with the annual accounts that clubs submit to the PL

Premier Income is accepted almost on trust when the FA receive the subs from the clubs there will be a deeper look at the big deals and most of the commercial deals can easily be identified as being clearly at distance and of course not being for stupid money it in terms of the other income streams such as TV and player trading these really are not difficult to plot and based on the fact that the PL get a return from each club after every game in terms of attendances the modelling that the PL almost certainly use will flag up issues.

But if a club undertake the sort of deception that City are alleged to have instigated they won’t be uncovered until something triggers an investigation such as the infamous email leaks. Even then if a club doesn’t engage in a transparent and open way these type of matters can take ages

Do you think the accounts were not discussed and indeed perused when Everton worked closely with the Premier lge for 2 yrs , even allowing the club to sign players and consult on player contracts ?

 

[Dixieslaces]

One more note if I may. A League like the Premier League should really have a Sanctions regime in place from the outset of the 1st 3 year period. It all seems ad hoc and chaotic even if IMO the decision to refer and test is the correct one.

In the Football League Championship, which has the same rules as the PL btw save for loss limits and maybe stricter Covid limits it seems to be as follows:

£1-1.999m= 3 points
£2m-3.999m= 4 points
£4-5.999m= 5 points
£6-7.999m= 6 points
£8-9.99m= 7 points
£10-12.499m= 8 points
£12.5-15m=9 points

Anything over £15m seems to be a 12 point deduction. In reality there can be some haggling, suspended aspects etc.

Then the League can push for up to 9 for aggravating factors. ie Bad faith etc.

Think one of them e.g. maybe trajectory of losses.

Birmingham lost £9.8m above limits in 3 years to 2018. Which is 7 pts. Their losses were higher each year which got 3 more but they got one back for cooperation.

Sheffield Wednesday got their 12 point one halved due to EFL failings too but given their losses went up like Birmingham they should've got 3 more added to the halved I think.

Everton if losses falling maybe a couple off.

Far too sensible lol

 

[allen]

It feels like death by a thousand cuts supporting this club at present. It's just one thing after another.

It is - and that is testament to one thing: how inadequate the club leadership are. They've piloted us right onto the rocks through sheer incompetence.

 

[LucBesson]

Don't worry lads. I've just opened Twitter and the Echo have us signing Gyokeres and a £52m Brazilian. All is well. Merry Christmas, War Is Over.

 

[Goodisongang]

A transfer ban or even a minimal points deduction don't bear thinking about in our situation.

Absolutely this, however just won't happen this season or anytime soon.

We have already denied any wrongdoing, whether that's correct or not we don't know, but as we will appeal it, it's going to take a long time to sort out so any points deduction or embargoes will take place in future seasons, HOPEFULLY we will have sorted our sh1t out on the pitch by then. ( At least a steady mid table team under dyche )

And more importantly which I haven't really seen getting mentioned, the premier League literally told us a few months ago we had done nothing wrong and had nothing to answer for ( when burnely and leed grasses wrote to them) they will look ridiculously stupid now if they then say "oh actually you did break the rules" and adding onto that, if we did break the rules after saying we didn't, I'm sure Leeds and mostly Burnley will be looking to sue us/fa for the whole thing.

 

[perth_blue]

Regardless of the outcome, it will not impact on this season.
The report will not be compiled, reviewed and submitted before season's end. Let alone have a punishement determined.

 

[brieverton]

I don't think we will face a points deduction, whenever punishment is eventually meted out. We have a very good case to avoid that considering we have been co-operating with the PL and they have dismissed previous complaints.

One would then have to ask if punishment of any sort is merited at all.

My worry would be that, if it is, the PL will be under pressure to make an example of us. This is football we're talking about. There are politics at play. I don't think it suits the PL at all to find themselves in a position where they would apply a points deduction. But we are not big players, and if for whatever reason, they felt it was expedient for them to go ahead in our case, then neither they nor anyone else outside of the club would care a jot as to the collateral damage done to Everton.

 

[Marius57]

I don't think we will face a points deduction, whenever punishment is eventually meted out. We have a very good case to avoid that considering we have been co-operating with the PL and they have dismissed previous complaints.

One would then have to ask if punishment of any sort is merited at all.

My worry would be that, if it is, the PL will be under pressure to make an example of us. This is football we're talking about. There are politics at play. I don't think it suits the PL at all to find themselves in a position where they would apply a points deduction. But we are not big players, and if for whatever reason, they felt it was expedient for them to go ahead in our case, then neither they nor anyone else outside of the club would care a jot as to the collateral damage done to Everton.

The problem for the PL that lies in our favour, that if they make an example of us, then they have to follow through with that with Man City as well. Which they won’t want to do.

They have screwed themselves over really by not having a real system with pre determined sanctions etc (like the EFL does) in place because any punishment they put in, can be argued aren’t fair or reasonable etc because they are making it up as they go along. It will be quite easy to argue that it isn’t consistent with sanctions handed out to other clubs that have broken rules (like when the scab 6 signed up to another league and instead of making examples, they gave them a little fine).

 

[greener]

Ahhh this so much.

Little fine for the absolute dog teams who tried to ruin English football and make their own league, points deductions for a team who have just spent very badly but to no benefit of their own and no implications to anyone else, as we spent that bad.

I still don't think it will be anything other than a fine, city won the league at the expense of others, we barely stayed in the prem!!!

I can assure you those on the south coast berating the lack of money spent over the last 5 yrs and looking at almost certain relegation would disagree. Very poor spending by us of course but it's also about retention and ability to pay top earners. Pickford (alongside the GP atmosphere) imo saved us last season, he doesn't do the job for free.

The expressed views of more 'active' fans from Burnley, Leeds etc are a damm sight more agressive about gains the club have obtained through breaking the rules.

Someone else breaking rules doesn't let you off in life, anywhere. By the way 'it's not fair' doesn't (and never has) worked as a defence.

I agree we'll get a fine at worst, but there is no high moral ground here.

 

[WestStandLower]

I mean a company and an individual are completely different entities.

But yes, on my PAYE that I pay, if HMRC tried to pull me up on something from years ago, I would challenge it in court, as it is their responsibility to check it. I cant think of a single example, where years after the event someone has been charged over PAYE.

It's also worth noting, that the government, a legal body, is wholly different to the PL, so the comparison doesnt work.

It is like a private auditor, you give them the information, and they allow to keep practicing. If they have an issue, it is their job to highlight that at the time. If they dont, your version of events has been accepted.

The idea that all clubs are in perpetual purgatory, whereby the league will not challenge their findings, but also dont agree them is completely unworkable. How could any business plan with forward projections if they dont know if their figures have been accepted?

Which court would you challenge HMRC in ? Yes there is the limitation act which restricts the length of time they can pursue post 6 years but if it was down to you committing fraud, or concealing something or you making a mistake then the likelihood is you would lose any case you bought to a tribunal or tried to defend in the County Court

 

[Goodisongang]

I can assure you those on the south coast berating the lack of money spent over the last 5 yrs and looking at almost certain relegation would disagree. Very poor spending by us of course but it's also about retention and ability to pay top earners. Pickford (alongside the GP atmosphere) imo saved us last season, he doesn't do the job for free.

The expressed views of more 'active' fans from Burnley, Leeds etc are a damm sight more agressive about gains the club have obtained through breaking the rules.

Someone else breaking rules doesn't let you off in life, anywhere. By the way 'it's not fair' doesn't (and never has) worked as a defence.

I agree we'll get a fine at worst, but there is no high moral ground here.

Nar it was more tongue in cheek, rules are rules like but I'm kind of suggesting it hasn't made us stronger whereas city have become one of it not the best team in Europe because of it, not that makes a difference, just means they are far better at cheating than we are I suppose?

Anyway, nothing will happen this season and by the time any sanctions we may face do happen I'd like to think we'd be in a lot stronger position by then with dyche in charge, IF he keeps us up I honestly can't see us being in the same position again with him in charge, so if in a season or two we face the worst possible outcome off a deduction, like to think it wouldn't affect us as much as it would now.

Time will tell

 

[WestStandLower]

What non- impartiality does the independent commission have? Or the appeal commission?

City tried to argue that the PL tribunal set up to arbitrate wouldn’t show bias they quite simply got laughed out of court.

The whole disciplinary system is agreed by the shareholders (the clubs plus the FA) within the PL had any club not been happy with the appointment’s then they were within their rights to vote against them ,the process or indeed resign from PL

 

[mahermi1]

The problem for the PL that lies in our favour, that if they make an example of us, then they have to follow through with that with Man City as well. Which they won’t want to do.

They have screwed themselves over really by not having a real system with pre determined sanctions etc (like the EFL does) in place because any punishment they put in, can be argued aren’t fair or reasonable etc because they are making it up as they go along. It will be quite easy to argue that it isn’t consistent with sanctions handed out to other clubs that have broken rules (like when the scab 6 signed up to another league and instead of making examples, they gave them a little fine).

Man City would have to be dealt with first.

 

[Ring master]