Financial Fair Play investigation

[davek]

I don't think they're gonna hit us with a 20 point deduction. It'll probably be 6-12. I think Dyche could get us to around 48 points next season which would give us a fighting chance.

As @Neiler points out, the PL has taken out its big stick on points deductions only twice and under exceptional circumstances: a club going into administration (9 points) and a club missing a PL fixture (3 points).

Are the PL going to place a solvent football club on the same terms as a club that went bust and punish them both equally?

 

[Drico]

We'd better get our business done early in the summer...

 

[davek]

Ultimately it’s all about this. 100%

Esk will write his article, RS media biffs will all say we are doomed. People waiting for the accounts to be published to give answers but they won’t as they won’t show what we are saying needs to be adjusted to go from accounting profit to P&S profit.

There will be zero accurate info coming out until the “judgement”. None. It’s all damaging speculation and guesswork from attention seekers, well-meaning or otherwise. Points on the pitch are all that matter.

Absolutely.

There's two things that will kill us:

1/ relegation this season
2/ the darker end of the spectrum in terms of a punishment from this commission set up

Let's just get the first off the table and then we can be reasonably confident we wont get the severest punishment when it comes.

 

[HalfTimeSayers]

I agree with that but one thing that could be argued is the amount of money attributed to Covid losses

Yes you are right, and that’s nothing to do with accounting profit. That falls into the “adjustments” which presumably are contentious. No companies could change their accounting profit due to Covid losses. Some variability on valuation of assets maybe due to the assets no longer generating incomes, but in the case of PL teams the Covid losses seem to just be a way of ensuring the PL didn’t need to adjust the allowable loss limits. Limits kept the same and club losses adjusted would be easier for the PL. But unfortunately opens up massive scope for judgement calls, which is a disaster when dealing with accounting. No one ever agrees anything.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

As @Neiler points out, the PL has taken out its big stick on points deductions only twice and under exceptional circumstances: a club going into administration (9 points) and a club missing a PL fixture (3 points).

Are the PL going to place a solvent football club on the same terms as a club that went bust and punish them both equally?

They have to give us something bigger than a fine to deter others. I reckon it'll be something like points and a transfer ban if we're found guilty. If that happens keeping Price and Cannon kicking on would be vital. We have effectively been giving ourselves a transfer ban (and therefore losing points) for the past 2 seasons though so it'd be interesting if they give us a more lenient sentence because of that.

 

[ForeverEverton]

Everyone needs to calm down, we are in nearly April, I`d be surprised if we were sanctioned by the end of this season being the commission need to go through it with a fine tooth comb, dont forget the accounts were audited by an external auditor. Then no doubt Everton will argue the case or appeal any decision.

Don`t forget we have NOT been charged, it has been referred to a commission with better financial knowledge.

I believe a points deduction is highly unlikely, best case we are succesful in arguing our case and I think worst case is a transfer ban and fine, I guess it depends on the size of breach, if there is one.

I dont think we will get a bigger punishment than Chelsea did when Chelsea were given a transfer ban after 150 rule breaches involving 69 academy players over several seasons as a poster said earlier. If we did the future would look pretty grim for City!

 

[catcherintherye]

Not sure what you mean mate, year 3 - we don’t have yet - that comes out next week will be added to the years I posted above for a complete three year cycle we are being assed for. All three years must come in at 105 mill.

What I mean, if Year 0 is replaced by year 3, and year 0 + 1 + 2 are under 105m, then by that notion year 3 just had to be under year 0.

 

[ForeverEverton]

Everyone needs to calm down, we are in nearly April, I`d be surprised if we were sanctioned by the end of this season being the commission need to go through it with a fine tooth comb, dont forget the accounts were audited by an external auditor. Then no doubt Everton will argue the case or appeal any decision.

Don`t forget we have NOT been charged, it has been referred to a commission with better financial knowledge.

I believe a points deduction is highly unlikely, best case we are succesful in arguing our case and I think worst case is a transfer ban and fine, I guess it depends on the size of breach, if there is one.

I dont think we will get a bigger punishment than Chelsea did when Chelsea were given a transfer ban after 150 rule breaches involving 69 academy players over several seasons as a poster said earlier. If we did the future would look pretty grim for City!

I should have mentioned all this seems bizarre being we have been transparent and seeking PL approval on this matter....... In the next breath they are saying we are in breach.....

One thing is for sure, IF this board is still here next season they are going to totally destroy us, they need removing by ANY means necessary if we want to save ourselves.

 

[Joey66]

This goes back to the end of last season when we blamed a huge loss on Covid .....well above any other club in the prem .....

 

[catcherintherye]

They have to give us something bigger than a fine to deter others. I reckon it'll be something like points and a transfer ban if we're found guilty. If that happens keeping Price and Cannon kicking on would be vital. We have effectively been giving ourselves a transfer ban (and therefore losing points) for the past 2 seasons though so it'd be interesting if they give us a more lenient sentence because of that.

It has to be seen to be proportionate. Neither of those things alone are proportionate.

They have to have wriggle room for City, who have committed far more serious offences. Theres no moral case for points deductions, and honestly any sort of embargo would also be a disgrace.

 

[catcherintherye]

Everyone needs to calm down, we are in nearly April, I`d be surprised if we were sanctioned by the end of this season being the commission need to go through it with a fine tooth comb, dont forget the accounts were audited by an external auditor. Then no doubt Everton will argue the case or appeal any decision.

Don`t forget we have NOT been charged, it has been referred to a commission with better financial knowledge.

I believe a points deduction is highly unlikely, best case we are succesful in arguing our case and I think worst case is a transfer ban and fine, I guess it depends on the size of breach, if there is one.

I dont think we will get a bigger punishment than Chelsea did when Chelsea were given a transfer ban after 150 rule breaches involving 69 academy players over several seasons as a poster said earlier. If we did the future would look pretty grim for City!

Some sense. 1 rule breach is not as serious as 150 rule breaches. Logically speaking.

 

[catcherintherye]

I agree. It'll be a hefty fine or an outside chance of a transfer window embargo.

What I dont get though is the club's forceful letter in response to the PL statement. If youlre working hand in glove with the PL then you just say that you'll continue to abide by the process and are confident of your case. Saying that you're "disappointed to hear of the Premier League’s decision" to refer the case cuts across that.

Yes, something seemed to happen late last calendar year. I don't know what.

I found the statement quite firmly worded and confident. My money would be on something like the USM losses being able to be counted within the P&L, which in any normal walk of live they would be able to.

 

[catcherintherye]

I'm hoping it's that. Like I've said before, it's not going to take much of a loss for last season to tip us over that rolling threshold again, even by a little bit. So by the rules they have to send us to the independent commission for a review. If they didn't, all the clubs in the league would question the rules.

As we've apparently been transparent and cooperated with the league over that time and are continuing to reduce the losses, you'd think the committee will just fine us.

Almost like a fine and suspended sentence for good behaviour.

Objectively it's a good PR story for the PL too. They suspend Evertons sentence (say an embargo) on the premise they comply. We will comply next year (no thanks to the board or the PL) but they can claim success, and show their teeth work.

 

[4737carlin]

Should make the club sack those responsible for getting us into the mess.

Moshiri can hardly sack himself but it will be a wake up call to stay in the background

 

[catcherintherye]

Ah get you both now, what i prob haven't factored into the raw figures is the allowance for youth development, women's football and community - prob somewhere in around 15 mill, so £45 mill over the three years you knock off the bottom line of the £54mill profit figure i posted. give or take on the loose figures - not a million miles off a 13mill loss, so you can see the clubs case actually.

Thanks for point it out.

And they may also be able to legitimately claim back the loss of USM income due to war, which is also perfectly reasonable, and 99% of businesses would do this.