He really is the puppet master of Jezza comes across as clever but somethings are good what he says they have to be no explanation on how the loans are paid back though!
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Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate
- Thread starter summerisle
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Whistlin' Dixie
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No worse than gidiot promising the debt would be cleared by 2015..from 2010 until 2015.
Toffeelover
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Just goes to show what a narna he is.
catcherintherye
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You make some good points Joey. There is no place for absolutism and nor is there a place for people who won't listen. I can't talk for Corbyn but I certainly hope the shadow cabinet is broad and reflective of the vote, and not dominated 100% by Corbyn supporters. He should have a majority in the shadow cabinet but all tendencies should be represented so it looks like what the party voted for.
We can look at it either way regarding a good leader. 80% of the MP's felt they didn't have confidence in him and proposed a challenger. Unfortunately the membership of the party disagreed with them and re-elected Corbyn by an even bigger margin. Nobody's views should be ignored, but why do 100 MP's views trump that of the hundreds of thousands of members? And more importantly how will a party intend to win if it feels those at the top can ride rough shot on what others think?
I don't think it should be sod everyone else. I have lot of disagreements myself with Corbyn on a number of issues. I should be able to raise them. However I don't think me and 170 other members should automatically have the right to decide what we do? It seems an entitled way to act to me. It's all about give and take really I'd say.
catcherintherye
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Isn't a speech saying no war and a placard saying no war essentially the same thing? Both showed foresight but maybe one had a more professional way of conveying it?
Toffeelover
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That is appears to be on the cards. Militant Tendency, Trotskiytes, Socialist Worker, Socialist Party, all the other extreme lefties calling themselves Momentum coming now out of the woodwork a bit like the beginning of Michael Jackson's Thriller video.
Apparently for example Momentum already control the Bristol Labour Party, add to that the number of MPs who have been harassed and threatened.
Mountfield1985
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I think if the last few months has taught us anything it's that squabbling over Corbyns electoral credibility does nothing but damage the party.
He isn't going anywhere, and so we have to get behind him. MP's and members alike.
I voted for him in 2015, and to be honest I feel quite disappointed in how he and McDonnell have conducted themselves on a number of issues. Hopefully the slate will now be wiped clean and we can start to broaden our wider appeal with a united front, but in turn Corbyn HAS to start playing the game.
He isn't going anywhere, and so we have to get behind him. MP's and members alike.
I voted for him in 2015, and to be honest I feel quite disappointed in how he and McDonnell have conducted themselves on a number of issues. Hopefully the slate will now be wiped clean and we can start to broaden our wider appeal with a united front, but in turn Corbyn HAS to start playing the game.
Toffeelover
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To be honest cannot see that happening.
Brendan Janus
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Andy Hessenthaler sacked now, whoever next ?
brieverton
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If I may make a somewhat philosophical point here, as a non-alligned/non-affliated voter.
I was the first (and still, only) person in my family to go to university, and proceed to a non-traditional, white-collar career. Now, there are people from my background, who vote for all hues, and none, my leaning would be towards Labour, but my vote has floated around.
It just seems to me that with a rise in the general education of the population, together with the stunning impact of social media / internet, that it was inevitable that there would be at least a clamour, for a return to a party espousing traditional left-wing values, as relevant or not as they are to modern society.
As an ordinary voter, I at least welcome in principle any divergence from the grey consensus politics that has dominated since the rise of Thatcherism, and the corresponding shift to the middle-ground/centre-right, from Labour. There wasn't much difference to me, as a punter, between one-nation Toryism and the Blairite Labour Party.
I do think Corbyn is unelectable as it stands but his re-election does send a more important message as to the state of public discourse as it is currently. I recall Tony Benn saying many years ago that if voters had a simple choice between Tories implementing Tory policies and the Labour Party doing the same - they may as well vote Tory - better the devil you know and all that.
As it is now it will take an election defeat to remove Corbyn but the lesson is there for the Labour Party in the long-run - many people post the 2008 crash and outside of the usual (protest) voices want a clearly-espoused left-wing alternative to which they can identify with and get behind. The challenge for Labour is to become that alternative as a willing electorate surely exists - I still don't buy that the majority of people would not support progressive, egalitarian policies as opposed to the narrow and elitist offerings of the Tories. They do need the right face to project that though and Corbyn isn't it.
I was the first (and still, only) person in my family to go to university, and proceed to a non-traditional, white-collar career. Now, there are people from my background, who vote for all hues, and none, my leaning would be towards Labour, but my vote has floated around.
It just seems to me that with a rise in the general education of the population, together with the stunning impact of social media / internet, that it was inevitable that there would be at least a clamour, for a return to a party espousing traditional left-wing values, as relevant or not as they are to modern society.
As an ordinary voter, I at least welcome in principle any divergence from the grey consensus politics that has dominated since the rise of Thatcherism, and the corresponding shift to the middle-ground/centre-right, from Labour. There wasn't much difference to me, as a punter, between one-nation Toryism and the Blairite Labour Party.
I do think Corbyn is unelectable as it stands but his re-election does send a more important message as to the state of public discourse as it is currently. I recall Tony Benn saying many years ago that if voters had a simple choice between Tories implementing Tory policies and the Labour Party doing the same - they may as well vote Tory - better the devil you know and all that.
As it is now it will take an election defeat to remove Corbyn but the lesson is there for the Labour Party in the long-run - many people post the 2008 crash and outside of the usual (protest) voices want a clearly-espoused left-wing alternative to which they can identify with and get behind. The challenge for Labour is to become that alternative as a willing electorate surely exists - I still don't buy that the majority of people would not support progressive, egalitarian policies as opposed to the narrow and elitist offerings of the Tories. They do need the right face to project that though and Corbyn isn't it.
Pienaar's gloves
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Have you ever been to a Momentum meet? I doubt it.
In my experience, they're full of single Mum's, students and BME people trying to get a bit of grassroots organisation together.
Mum's who want childcare that is affordable and lets them work. Students who don't want saddling with debt, enough money to live on and are fed up with the state of the place.
Half the people at them probably don't know who Trotsky was and have no idea what Militant was.
Your post is so Daily Mail it's unreal. Go to one mate, go and meet them. You'll find that what you've written is utter crap.
The fact that most PLP members are not turning up at the conference says it all a vote of no confidence is a fact not just momentum ant others with nodding dog heads taking over the Labour party can't he see he is being used?????
If you were around in 1980 its a mirror reflection only imo worse of what is happening now - for Labour to win a GE they need tory voters to vote for an opposition that they like!
Not what you describe!
Toffeelover
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Take your word for it Mate, just going off the comments made by MPs like Cooper and Ellman. So they are being misquoted are they and the threatening emails are fiction.
Fair dos dont forget only 18 months ago the public voted those MPs in Not Corbynism!
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