Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[Jib in lad]

 

[bizzaro]

Trying to prop up a weak 'leader'

That the wider electorate won't vote for.

 

[magicjuan]

Go and tell Dianne Abbott that.

She's on twitter.

She was demanding people went to protest.


Its a sign of the real weakness there is in Labour right now. Thanks to Corbyn

This bubble you live in, are you scared it may just pop through Corbyn?

You show contempt for those with enough mettle to have principles. You belittle those who are concerned about society, and regardless of your 'opinion' and disregard for democracy, a viable opposition is absolutely vital to the wellbeing of this country.
How this is brought about or achieved is less important than the fact it is.
Your rhetoric is that of someone quite scared of the impetus Corbyn carries and you obviously see it as a threat to your comfort zone.

You are of course right to be afraid, however, you are wrong to be such a whiff about how you attack those with different ideals.

 

[bizzaro]

This bubble you live in, are you scared it may just pop through Corbyn?

You show contempt for those with enough mettle to have principles. You belittle those who are concerned about society, and regardless of your 'opinion' and disregard for democracy, a viable opposition is absolutely vital to the wellbeing of this country.
How this is brought about or achieved is less important than the fact it is.
Your rhetoric is that of someone quite scared of the impetus Corbyn carries and you obviously see it as a threat to your comfort zone.

You are of course right to be afraid, however, you are wrong to be such a whiff about how you attack those with different ideals.

Corbyn is a clown mate. 4 in 5 people in his own party have no confidence in him.

I need nor say more than: unelectable.

 

[Milkman]

Corbyn is a clown mate. 4 in 5 people in his own party have no confidence in him.

I need nor say more than: unelectable.

Gotta hand it to you, you really know how to troll.

 

[bizzaro]

Gotta hand it to you, you really know how to troll.

Since when is telling the truth - trolling ?

If you can't accept the truth. That is called 'denial' mate.

Seems to be a lot if that around.

10000 gatherings of the same 1500 people won't change that.

 

[hullefc]

Corbyn is a clown mate. 4 in 5 people in his own party have no confidence in him.

I need nor say more than: unelectable.

Corbyn got 59.5% of the vote for leadership i.e 250 000. Hardly 4 in 5 people in his own party. Where is the evidence that people from the CLP's have no confidence in him? It would appear the opposite given the demonstrations in support of him. From the letters sent to sitting Labour MPs by their constituency parties it is them that don't have support amongst Labour Party members.

Edit. Quite ironic really, that in Scotland the working class shifted to the left and Labour only has 1 MP. They were looking for a party that would stand up to the Tories and come to the conclusion it wasn't Labour.

 

[bizzaro]

Corbyn got 59.5% of the vote for leadership i.e 250 000. Hardly 4 in 5 people in his own party. Where is the evidence that people from the CLP's have no confidence in him? It would appear the opposite given the demonstrations in support of him. From the letters sent to sitting Labour MPs by their constituency parties it is them that don't have support amongst Labour Party members.

That's just in his own party though.

Outside his party no one will support him. That's why there's revolt in the PLP

 

[hullefc]

That's just in his own party though.

Outside his party no one will support him. That's why there's revolt in the PLP

I put this in my post but may in part answer your question.

Edit. Quite ironic really, that in Scotland the working class shifted to the left and Labour only has 1 MP. They were looking for a party that would stand up to the Tories and come to the conclusion it wasn't Labour.

All I hear over the past years is people getting more and more angry at the Labour party not fighting against the Tories. With Corbyn people are saying that at least he is someone that is standing up for the working class.

His electability should be tested with a general election, which should be called immediately. Because this parliament has no legitimacy after the vote to leave.

 

[hullefc]

Was at a union meeting yesterday and there were no objections to a vote for Corbyn. There was a lot of anger and hostility towards the 3 sitting Hull MPs and they have organised a demo today. Hardly the rent a mob care workers, cleaners, refuge collectors, office workers, plumbers, electricians etc.

 

[Clint Planet]

This isn’t Labour vs Corbyn, it’s the Establishment vs Democracy – and it’s time to pick a side

JUNE 30TH, 2016

EMILY APPLE NEWS AND POLITICS

Share Using

In my view:

I’m considering joining the Labour party. This may not seem a big deal to many people, but for someone who has been dismissive and disengaged from parliamentary politics for more years than I care to remember, to me it’s massive.

I’m not a Corbynista. I watched in a somewhat bemused fashion as he swept into the leadership role, with an outpouring of support which hasn’t been seen for a mainstream politician for generations.

It wasn’t as though I didn’t like Corbyn. I liked him before his name went forward for the nomination, and I liked him afterwards. But as someone who’s spent most of her teenage and adult life engaged in political activism, I just couldn’t see any point in investing time and energy into the Westminster elite, and a game of politics which ultimately, through the first past the post system, can never represent the views of the electorate.

But it was refreshing to see someone espousing proper left wing politics, and expressing sentiments that the years of Blairite centerism had swept away; someone who wouldn’t support the government in sweeping through their austerity measures, who would oppose trident, and would vote against launching the UK into yet another war.

I loved watching the first parliament sitting after he was elected, seeing him and John McDonnell sitting on the front bench, something I never thought I’d see. I have a soft spot for Mcdonnell after he, many years ago, wrote me a letter thanking me for “dropping off” our leaflets after we’d disrupted parliament with leaflets about the number of children killed by sanctions against Iraq.

However, I was still not ready to get passionately behind the Labour party. If anything, I felt the opposite. After the Tories unexpected election victory, it seemed to be the time to be getting behind grassroots initiatives and community organising. I thought we needed to be building alternatives to the current system, at the same time as vocally and militantly opposing the cuts the Tories were implementing.

And for me, Corbyn’s victory sucked the life out of this organising. I felt like it legitimised parliamentary politics, and pulled people’s energy into supporting and building the Labour party, rather than focussing on building practical alternative projects.

So, what’s changed?
Firstly, and most importantly, Brexit.

The sudden victory of the Leave vote and the economic and social turbulence it’s caused has shown a real need for a strong voice in opposition. Turbulence is a nice word. The reality is this vote has given legitimacy to the most disgusting racism. Reported hate crimes are up 57%, but these are only the reported ones – and the real figure will be much higher. My social media timelines have been filled with heartbreaking stories from one friend after another who have experienced or witnessed appalling racism.

Yes, the rise of the far right in this country has been happening for a while. But the language surrounding the referendum debate, and the result, has given racists a voice which they aren’t afraid to use. And the scale upon which it is happening is unprecedented and frightening.

Now, more than ever, we need strong voices in all arenas of politics to oppose the far right rather than pander to them. Corbyn, as someone who is strongly anti-fascist and pro-immigration, is a much-needed voice in this debate.

Furthermore, if the Leave vote is to be read as an anti-establishment vote, that people are fed up with the status quo, that they are fed up with cuts, with having to wait for a hospital appointment, then the last thing they need is an “austerity light” centre-left party. Instead, there is a real need to refocus the debate and make it about the crushing austerity measures the Tories have imposed upon us. We need to ensure that a series of practices which have been condemned by the UN as human rights abuses are blamed for what is happening in this country – not immigrants, or refugees.

Given the Brexit vote, there is also a real need to have a clear alternative voice. A voice which stands up for worker’s rights, human rights, environmental protections, the funding for our poorest regions, and all the other safeguards which Europe provided us with. A centre-left/Blairite party will only enable the Tories to decimate the rights we have left.

Meanwhile, there is something even deeper going on – a massive establishment coup against a democratically elected leader who still has massive support from the party membership. As revealed through investigations by The Canary, it has been an orchestrated coup, spearheaded by Portland Communication, a PR company which boasts Alistair Campbell as a senior adviser, and the Fabian Society who have many links to big business.

Writing on Tuesday, Steve Topple commented:

This is not a string of random acts. This is a coordinated attack on Corbyn’s leadership (because let’s be frank, that’s what it is), and it is coming from one source. The Fabian Society. A society who are funded by the likes of HSBC, Cuadrilla (who, oddly, Portland do PR work for) Barclays and Lloyds.

Meanwhile, those involved in the coup have been desperate to smear Corbyn and McDonnell, and to write off over 233,000 people who have signed a petition in support of Corbyn and the 10,o00 who mobilised on the streets of London earlier this week.

The establishment is feeling scared, under attack and desperate to win back control of what has become for them, a very profitable business. And we have a real opportunity to oppose them.

Criticisms of Corbyn:
Of course, there are criticisms. Of course, there are things he’s done wrong, of missed opportunities. He’s not a highly polished frontbench politician with years of training for the role. He seems to be a decent man, thrust into an indecent role, doing the best job he can with commitment and passion.

Furthermore, Corbyn has been continually bashed by an establishment led media, who have been determined not to give him a fair hearing. It has attempted to portray him as an outsider with no chance, even when he has been ahead in the polls.

Then there is the argument that supporting Corbyn may lead to splitting the Labour party. But it’s not Corbyn who’s done this, it is the Blairites with their coup. At a time when the country should be focusing on the mess that the Tories have landed us in with the referendum, and their own splits, the focus has been put on the Labour Party. It is the Blairites who should be putting up and shutting up, and respecting the massive mandate Corbyn was given less than one year ago. Corbyn has, quite rightly, refused to step down, when he still has such broad support of the membership.

I don’t want to legitimise the political elites by joining the Labour party. Nor do I want to legitimise the power of Westminster politics over grassroots community organising. But these don’t need to be mutually exclusive. Supporting one does not mean that I’m giving up on, or rejecting the other. And given the options which are on the table at the moment, Corbyn might just be our best chance of resurrecting something positive from the mess we seem to be in, and in preventing an even further drift to the right.

These are exceptional and turbulent times, and this leads to difficult and complex decisions. Change does not come through putting a cross in a box every few years or supporting one person – however committed and passionate they may be. Real change will only come through people being politically engaged on a daily basis and building alternatives.

However, given the situation we’re in, supporting Corbyn, keeping out the profit-making establishment Blairites, and building a credible opposition to Tory policies which at the bottom line are killing people, seems like the best option we have.

I haven’t bitten the bullet and joined Labour yet, but I think it might be time.

 

[magicjuan]

Corbyn is a clown mate. 4 in 5 people in his own party have no confidence in him.

I need nor say more than: unelectable.

4 in 5 of the westminster corporate lackies. Don't confuse well paid, very well enhanced by expenses, spineless politicians with no conviction who are clinging to privilige, with the public.
Their behaviour and that of the press is beyond reprehensible.
The public don't like bullying.

 

[magicjuan]

This isn’t Labour vs Corbyn, it’s the Establishment vs Democracy – and it’s time to pick a side

JUNE 30TH, 2016

EMILY APPLE NEWS AND POLITICS

Share Using

In my view:

I’m considering joining the Labour party. This may not seem a big deal to many people, but for someone who has been dismissive and disengaged from parliamentary politics for more years than I care to remember, to me it’s massive.

I’m not a Corbynista. I watched in a somewhat bemused fashion as he swept into the leadership role, with an outpouring of support which hasn’t been seen for a mainstream politician for generations.

It wasn’t as though I didn’t like Corbyn. I liked him before his name went forward for the nomination, and I liked him afterwards. But as someone who’s spent most of her teenage and adult life engaged in political activism, I just couldn’t see any point in investing time and energy into the Westminster elite, and a game of politics which ultimately, through the first past the post system, can never represent the views of the electorate.

But it was refreshing to see someone espousing proper left wing politics, and expressing sentiments that the years of Blairite centerism had swept away; someone who wouldn’t support the government in sweeping through their austerity measures, who would oppose trident, and would vote against launching the UK into yet another war.

I loved watching the first parliament sitting after he was elected, seeing him and John McDonnell sitting on the front bench, something I never thought I’d see. I have a soft spot for Mcdonnell after he, many years ago, wrote me a letter thanking me for “dropping off” our leaflets after we’d disrupted parliament with leaflets about the number of children killed by sanctions against Iraq.

However, I was still not ready to get passionately behind the Labour party. If anything, I felt the opposite. After the Tories unexpected election victory, it seemed to be the time to be getting behind grassroots initiatives and community organising. I thought we needed to be building alternatives to the current system, at the same time as vocally and militantly opposing the cuts the Tories were implementing.

And for me, Corbyn’s victory sucked the life out of this organising. I felt like it legitimised parliamentary politics, and pulled people’s energy into supporting and building the Labour party, rather than focussing on building practical alternative projects.

So, what’s changed?
Firstly, and most importantly, Brexit.

The sudden victory of the Leave vote and the economic and social turbulence it’s caused has shown a real need for a strong voice in opposition. Turbulence is a nice word. The reality is this vote has given legitimacy to the most disgusting racism. Reported hate crimes are up 57%, but these are only the reported ones – and the real figure will be much higher. My social media timelines have been filled with heartbreaking stories from one friend after another who have experienced or witnessed appalling racism.

Yes, the rise of the far right in this country has been happening for a while. But the language surrounding the referendum debate, and the result, has given racists a voice which they aren’t afraid to use. And the scale upon which it is happening is unprecedented and frightening.

Now, more than ever, we need strong voices in all arenas of politics to oppose the far right rather than pander to them. Corbyn, as someone who is strongly anti-fascist and pro-immigration, is a much-needed voice in this debate.

Furthermore, if the Leave vote is to be read as an anti-establishment vote, that people are fed up with the status quo, that they are fed up with cuts, with having to wait for a hospital appointment, then the last thing they need is an “austerity light” centre-left party. Instead, there is a real need to refocus the debate and make it about the crushing austerity measures the Tories have imposed upon us. We need to ensure that a series of practices which have been condemned by the UN as human rights abuses are blamed for what is happening in this country – not immigrants, or refugees.

Given the Brexit vote, there is also a real need to have a clear alternative voice. A voice which stands up for worker’s rights, human rights, environmental protections, the funding for our poorest regions, and all the other safeguards which Europe provided us with. A centre-left/Blairite party will only enable the Tories to decimate the rights we have left.

Meanwhile, there is something even deeper going on – a massive establishment coup against a democratically elected leader who still has massive support from the party membership. As revealed through investigations by The Canary, it has been an orchestrated coup, spearheaded by Portland Communication, a PR company which boasts Alistair Campbell as a senior adviser, and the Fabian Society who have many links to big business.

Writing on Tuesday, Steve Topple commented:

This is not a string of random acts. This is a coordinated attack on Corbyn’s leadership (because let’s be frank, that’s what it is), and it is coming from one source. The Fabian Society. A society who are funded by the likes of HSBC, Cuadrilla (who, oddly, Portland do PR work for) Barclays and Lloyds.

Meanwhile, those involved in the coup have been desperate to smear Corbyn and McDonnell, and to write off over 233,000 people who have signed a petition in support of Corbyn and the 10,o00 who mobilised on the streets of London earlier this week.

The establishment is feeling scared, under attack and desperate to win back control of what has become for them, a very profitable business. And we have a real opportunity to oppose them.

Criticisms of Corbyn:
Of course, there are criticisms. Of course, there are things he’s done wrong, of missed opportunities. He’s not a highly polished frontbench politician with years of training for the role. He seems to be a decent man, thrust into an indecent role, doing the best job he can with commitment and passion.

Furthermore, Corbyn has been continually bashed by an establishment led media, who have been determined not to give him a fair hearing. It has attempted to portray him as an outsider with no chance, even when he has been ahead in the polls.

Then there is the argument that supporting Corbyn may lead to splitting the Labour party. But it’s not Corbyn who’s done this, it is the Blairites with their coup. At a time when the country should be focusing on the mess that the Tories have landed us in with the referendum, and their own splits, the focus has been put on the Labour Party. It is the Blairites who should be putting up and shutting up, and respecting the massive mandate Corbyn was given less than one year ago. Corbyn has, quite rightly, refused to step down, when he still has such broad support of the membership.

I don’t want to legitimise the political elites by joining the Labour party. Nor do I want to legitimise the power of Westminster politics over grassroots community organising. But these don’t need to be mutually exclusive. Supporting one does not mean that I’m giving up on, or rejecting the other. And given the options which are on the table at the moment, Corbyn might just be our best chance of resurrecting something positive from the mess we seem to be in, and in preventing an even further drift to the right.

These are exceptional and turbulent times, and this leads to difficult and complex decisions. Change does not come through putting a cross in a box every few years or supporting one person – however committed and passionate they may be. Real change will only come through people being politically engaged on a daily basis and building alternatives.

However, given the situation we’re in, supporting Corbyn, keeping out the profit-making establishment Blairites, and building a credible opposition to Tory policies which at the bottom line are killing people, seems like the best option we have.

I haven’t bitten the bullet and joined Labour yet, but I think it might be time.

I've considered it too, if I'm allowed. Last time I tried, mid 80s, I was knocked back for being too militant, the inference was I was a member of Militant, which I wasn't, but my public engagements through the TGWU had been erm 'noted'

Don't forget there was a purge against left wing thinkers then to prepare the party for a shift to the right, then we got a very good man.in John Smith as leader and he 'didn't last long...'.

Then came Mandelson...

It's like deja vu all over again

 

[hullefc]

Anger stirs in Angela Eagle's Wallasey constituency

anger stirs in her Wallasey constituency

On Friday I went to Merseyside to visit the constituency of Angela Eagle, the former shadow defence secretary and shadow business secretary who is now a potential Labour leadership contender. Many Labour MPs returning to their constituencies this weekend, including Eagle, face a backlash from pro-Jeremy Corbyn party members incensed by moves to oust him from office.

The mood among these grassroots groups is hardening. They are urging activists to make their views known to their MPs at weekly surgery meetings, and promise a torrid time for MPs when they appear before their constituency Labour party (CLP) meetings in the weeks ahead. Eagle is in danger of becoming the focal point for this rage if she presses ahead with her challenge to Corbyn.

Eagle’s CLP in Wallasey – a once-bustling area on the other side of the Mersey from Liverpool, fuelled by the wages of dockers but now suffering from decades of unemployment and neglect – voted against any attempt to remove Corbyn a week ago. The office-bearers then wrote to Eagle to relay this message. But she ignored them. And they are incensed.

Liverpool and Merseyside, long bastions of the Labour movement, were at the heart of the civil war in the 1980s when the city was synonymous with the entryist group Militant. And Labour finds itself now on the brink of another civil war, one that could end with the party irrevocably split. That war may already be unstoppable unless Corbyn stands aside or the MPs hostile to him back off.

I went to Wallasey to talk to CLP members. She is seen as a good constituency MP, though there is unease about her backing for the 2003 Iraq invasion. Her proposed challenge threatens to create a chasm between her and party members. The Wallasey vote last week was 40 in favour of Corbyn, none against, and four abstentions. The judgement of Liam Hertzenberg, one of the members, is uncompromising. “I do not think she has the support of the CLP,” he said. “I hope she will be deselected.”

Corbyn last year ruled out mandatory deselection, two words guaranteed to create terror among MPs. But members, unhappy with the events of the past week, are actively discussing deselection, arguing it is time the parliamentary Labour party more closely mirrored the views of the constituency parties.

Hertzenberg, a 25-year-old self-employed digital and graphic designer, said he has written to Eagle this week. He expressed his unhappiness that she backed the no confidence motion in Corbyn, and plans to visit her surgery to make his point in person. She can expect to find the next meeting of her CLP uncomfortable, he predicts.

Paul Davies, vice-chair of the Wallasey CLP and a retired union official with Unite, shares the anger of Hertzenberg at the PLP’s behaviour. But the 64-year-old said that CLP officials had not mentioned deselection and, in spite of deploring the actions of the PLP, he defended Eagle’s democratic right to challenge Corbyn. Davies voted Corbyn last time and intends to again.

Support for Corbyn on Merseyside is, however, far from universally enthusiastic. When they are out knocking on doors, Labour councillors, who control 80 of 90 seats on Liverpool city council, say that a regular refrain is that Corbyn cannot win a general election.

Young Labour members also express disappointment at the lack of enthusiasm with which Corbyn campaigned for remain in the European referendum. But these reservations seem to be outweighed by anger at the way the PLP has behaved.

Those organising against Corbyn, many from the Blair era, have established an online petition pressing him to resign – and are encouraging people to sign up for membership in preparation for a contest. Sixty thousand new members are reported to have joined in the last week. But that does not mean 60,000 are signing up to vote for a Corbyn alternative. The evidence in Wallasey is that at least some are signing up to support the current leader.

One of that number, Fiona Kelly, a teacher from Wallasey, joined the Young Socialists – Labour’s youth wing – aged 15 but left the party during the Blair years. She almost rejoined when Corbyn was elected but, now 47, has finally done so in order to vote for him. Kelly expressed frustration with the PLP for launching a coup attempt now. “I have waited a lifetime for this: when the Conservatives are in disarray,” she said. “Another chance might not come again. This should have been Labour’s moment.”

Corbyn has the support of both the unions, including Unite and the GMB, and of Momentum, the grassroots organisation set up last autumn to support him.

In my last article I wrote about the Merseyside branch of Momentum, which held an emergency meeting in the centre of Liverpool on Tuesday evening. It was planning a demonstration in support of Corbyn in the city centre on Saturday.

Unhappiness was voiced at the meeting with Eagle. But others saw the battle ahead as about more than just individual MPs.

There is a danger of a lot of casualties along the way: not only MPs such as Eagle but the Labour party itself.

 

[neil999]

I've considered it too, if I'm allowed. Last time I tried, mid 80s, I was knocked back for being too militant, the inference was I was a member of Militant, which I wasn't, but my public engagements through the TGWU had been erm 'noted'

Don't forget there was a purge against left wing thinkers then to prepare the party for a shift to the right, then we got a very good man.in John Smith as leader and he 'didn't last long...'.

Then came Mandelson...

It's like deja vu all over again

Always think it would be fascinating to know what would have happened if John Smith hadn't died, such a shame