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Holgate Racially Abused By Firmino - The Guardian

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4737carlin said:
Problem with this is Mason said he did it, now if it turns out it didn't happen it would a disgusting thing for Mason to do playing the race card, it's a big can of worms
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holgate has a much better reputation than evra you would believe and on the suarez case they banned him purely on evra's word, didn't they? As well as suarez admitting it? I can't remember. Anyway, i doubt in any world holgate would lie about it, especially not with the ref within ears length. We'll just see how it goes. I'm wondering that if they had video cameras of the correct angle, would they be showing it anyway? I mean it's not something you really want the public to be seeing, trying to guess and lip read and start all kinds of angles of accusations. It's not something you'd want kids to see either tbh, because we don't want to have words like that broadcasted everywhere.
 
the golden visionary said:
I think most kopites are going of the footage only believing what they see, so when Kennys head gets in the way they can't see anything so it doesn't count. Therefore Firmino isn't racist in their eyes,

Why would a young footballer in the world's eye want the attention that a racism case brings. Holgate doesn't strike me as the type, you don't see him in the paper like other players

I'm inclined to believe him.
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Bingo. Jumping to conclusions is a complete waste of time, wait for the evidence to come out. This is like a Netflix investigative documentary- everybody is searching for that one camera angle, that missing piece of the puzzle to try and solve the case. To my mind there is currently no definitive video footage in the public domain- that doesn’t mean it’s not been picked up by another camera and that footage could currently be being scrutinised and analysed in private more heavily than the zapruder film ever was.

And besides if there is video evidence the FA aren’t going to release it into a media storm until after any hearing. People are desperate for something in order to let the global shaming of the RS begin, and that’s understandable. But proper procedure has to be followed. Remember the Suarez case? So much more detail and information than anyone believed occurred was published in their aftermath report. That’s why anyone commenting (on both sides I should add) in such absolutes right now is being a little silly.

Just have to wait and see see how the process goes. The FA will have far more information than what is being reported. They’ve already started an investigation so I’m sure we’ll all hear something this week. After the Aluko farce in the women’s game over a similar issue they won’t be messing around on this one.
 
maccavennie said:
Just following on from the article they posted last night where it says they've watched it and a lip reader says he didn't say anything racial. Pretty sure they've only seen it from the same angle as us as it doesn't explain why Holgate flips
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And all their fans are using it to back up their argument that nothing was said. Its absolutely disgraceful that a national newspaper is printing this when its obviously incorrect. The club should be in touch with them.
 
maccavennie said:
I said to the missus last night during my 2nd night of heated conversation about it....if he's found guilty they should throw the book at the club and not just the player becsuse there is a deep rooted issue going on at that club of he's found guilty. To have 1 player found guilty of it ( and defending him ) was bad enough, 2 have 2 players found guilty.....hmmm I'd expect steps to be taken to re educate that club about whats expected of a professional football club.
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said this as well. They're constantly being caught up in race rows. It's 2018 now and it seems every single season they're being caught up in a massive race row. The kid at oldham as well. Got booed for suffering racist abuse by the liverpool fanbase was disgusting. Their club didn't do anything! They didn't realise a statement saying that was wrong ... because they didn't. The club is stuck so far back in history (hence why they keep reverting to it) that they don't fully grasp the kick it out campaign. I can't think of one single act LFC has made to make it aware they're fully behind that campaign. They can't say they support rhian brewster after they started wearing shirts supporting a first team racist, that's not how it works, that's a massive contradiction.
 

Tin-Tin said:
And all their fans are using it to back up their argument that nothing was said. Its absolutely disgraceful that a national newspaper is printing this when its obviously incorrect. The club should be in touch with them.
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Andy Dunn & Maddock leading the charge, this rubbish that it was cleared up at half time is obviously not true considering what’s happened since the game with fa reports etc.

Then you’ve got Henry Winter on twitter saying Holgates push is the issue not the alleged racism.
 
bag a yoko said:
It's not the Spanish word for 'the n word' it's the Portuguese word for black. It has no specific offence as a word in Portuguese. Of course if he said 'you black b"#-#' that would be offensive. There is no equivalent word with that power in Portuguese. It's the context it's said in. Obviously if he screamed 'negro di.... ' in his face that's rascism.
Oh. In Brazilian terms Firmino would certainly not see himself or be seen as black.
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Have already said I won't be saying anything negative about Firmino until I hear that he's proven to have said anything racist.

However, I don't understand the defence of the use of a word in any language linked to Negro. It's quite clearly deliberately referencing someones race in the confrontation, where race is not relevant to anything they're arguing about? Suarez admitted to using the word Negro to Evra. I don't see the relevance of bringing that up in a confrontation and the same would be the case for this incident if that is what happened. After just being thrown over the advertising hoardings and running over to confront Holgate visibly annoyed, there is no likely reason why he would have used any reference to skin colour other than to be negative.
 
If Holgate thinks there has been racial remark then the police have to investigate and not just the FA. Merseyside police should have on Saturday set the wheels in motion that a racial incident happened at a football match. No amount of lip reading 'experts' - the same ones that exonerated Suarez I assume - can stop an investigation. The FA and the rs dominated football media have quite rightly, been stamping their feet and demanding action over 'racist abuse abroad' lately. Let's hope there is consistency in approach with the Holgate incident. Wasn't Brewster allowed to be interviewed by the media, about racism even when the FIFA investigation is on going?

The club need to be on their toes for any hint that Holgate is going to get castigated for this, and demand action from the police if there is.
 
Deckard2049 said:
Bingo. Jumping to conclusions is a complete waste of time, wait for the evidence to come out. This is like a Netflix investigative documentary- everybody is searching for that one camera angle, that missing piece of the puzzle to try and solve the case. To my mind there is currently no definitive video footage in the public domain- that doesn’t mean it’s not been picked up by another camera and that footage could currently be being scrutinised and analysed in private more heavily than the zapruder film ever was.

And besides if there is video evidence the FA aren’t going to release it into a media storm until after any hearing. People are desperate for something in order to let the global shaming of the RS begin, and that’s understandable. But proper procedure has to be followed. Remember the Suarez case? So much more detail and information than anyone believed occurred was published in their aftermath report. That’s why anyone commenting (on both sides I should add) in such absolutes right now is being a little silly.

Just have to wait and see see how the process goes. The FA will have far more information than what is being reported. They’ve already started an investigation so I’m sure we’ll all hear something this week. After the Aluko farce in the women’s game over a similar issue they won’t be messing around on this one.
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There are liverpool fans who want Holgate banned saying he's playing the race card to get out of being sent off, which is a decent theory given the lack of evidence.

Biggest thing for me, albeit speculative, is the fact you clearly see Holgate isn't bothered while he's being called a puta then Kennys big head appears blocking the view. Firmino says something else and Holgate flips and puts his hands on the ref. A big no no.

There's a clear process A-B-C-D. But the Firmino support is going straight from A to D. Ignoring C which is the unknown.

It's all about what got said at C. And seeing as we don't actually know as you say mate its all speculation
 


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