How stupid are Manu?

[and_solskjaers_won_it]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mXpAOr7mJH8/UF2Lii7UA3I/AAAAAAAADGw/ZzQTg3KjKdc/s1600/Rafael-benitez-magic.gif

Yeah...I know...it was kinda bizarre that Benitez wanted Barry to replace Xabi Alonso, I don't know how much truth there is or if it was totally a media hoax....but considering the fact that Xabi Alonso achieved so much in the highest level of football, internationally and club wise, I cannot fathom the logic behind comparing them. It's like when Blackburn owner once said "Why do you want to sign Zinedine Zidane when we have Tim Sherwood?".

 

[and_solskjaers_won_it]

Bit unfair to rate Barry based in his England displays, could dismiss quite a lot of United players if you used that criteria as well including your captain. About the only Englishman that has replicated his club form in recent years for England is Ashley Cole.

I know you lot never appreciate Wayne Rooney, but I don't think he has done any less for England than what he did for Manchester United. He is not all about scoring goals, but even then he scored almost 1 goal every other match which he does the same for United. Okay, I know there are minnows like Andorra, San Marino etc. but even taking them into account, he didn't do badly. But I know he will never be appreciated as English people and the English FA have a hatred towards United. It's not new, it's even from the days of Sir Matt Busby during the 50s.

How are you finding your first 3 weeks of being a man utd fan?

It's not bad, I like it here. I can't expect perfection, can I? I have seen more hatred towards my favorite team from other groups of fan, so I think you lot are much better.

 

[roydo]

I know you lot never appreciate Wayne Rooney, but I don't think he has done any less for England than what he did for Manchester United. He is not all about scoring goals, but even then he scored almost 1 goal every other match which he does the same for United. Okay, I know there are minnows like Andorra, San Marino etc. but even taking them into account, he didn't do badly. But I know he will never be appreciated as English people and the English FA have a hatred towards United. It's not new, it's even from the days of Sir Matt Busby during the 50s.



It's not bad, I like it here. I can't expect perfection, can I? I have seen more hatred towards my favorite team from other groups of fan, so I think you lot are much better.

I think thats a compliment. How did you find us? And why an Everton forum in any case?

 

[LinekersLegs]

Going forward doesn't equal scoring goals, it's more about making the goals while being in deeper positions. The long range passing ability that Carrick has, Barry will never ever possess that.

Man Utd plays a possession based game where there needs a tactically aware player who can always hold the position. In England, Carrick is the best at that, Barry is nowhere near him at that. I remember Barry being overrun by Germans in WC2010, I have never seen Carrick having such a disastrous performance. If England had anyone close to Xabi Alonso, that's Carrick. Now, how many goals did Xabi Alonso score? Just 37. Does that mean he is worse than Gareth Barry?

You mean a bad game against German opposition - guess you didn't watch Carrick last season against Bayern, some Redcafe comments
http://www.redcafe.net/threads/michael-carrick-2013-14-performances.386527/page-5
"He's useless with the ball in these sort of games. Actually goes into hiding half the time. Summed up when he decided to kick the ball out of play instead of playing on like Rooney and Valencia were tying to do."

"I find it flabbergasting that some people actually thought Michael Carrick would show up against a Pep Guardiola midfield. He retreated into his shell once again when pressed quickly, alá Rome '09 and Wembley '11. No desire to get on the ball whatsoever. I like Carrick but that's the difference between the good players and the very, very best."

"Decent premier league player but at the top level a bottler of the highest order."

"Nah, the stick is warranted. He gave it away repeatedly. I like Carrick very much, but he was probably our worst player."

"He's useless with the ball in these sort of games. Actually goes into hiding half the time. Summed up when he decided to kick the ball out of play instead of playing on like Rooney and Valencia were tying to do."

You are right Barry doesn't attempt long balls as much as Carrick does, he is more about short passing to keep possesion which suits Martinez's style of play, but when he does one he is just as accurate as Carrick at it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...No-Steven-Gerrard-10-Mousa-Dembele-leads.html

As for Rooney I like him but despite the excellent goal ratio he has rarely bossed games for England the same way he has for United, often due to injury tbf which was also a reason for Barry's poor performance in that Germany game you slate him for.

 

[and_solskjaers_won_it]

I think thats a compliment. How did you find us? And why an Everton forum in any case?

I like Everton fans, I have a lot to learn from them, because they keep appreciating their team despite achieving so little in last 3 decades. This concept is not limited to football, learning to appreciate little things about life isn't easy, I think fans of clubs like Everton and Newcastle do that pretty well. Apart from that, this forum is pretty rational, not like RAWK. I've checked many forums, GOT, Redcafe etc. are some very good ones, but because I seek something different I joined here.

 

[blue4eva77]

Going forward doesn't equal scoring goals, it's more about making the goals while being in deeper positions. The long range passing ability that Carrick has, Barry will never ever possess that.

Man Utd plays a possession based game where there needs a tactically aware player who can always hold the position. In England, Carrick is the best at that, Barry is nowhere near him at that. I remember Barry being overrun by Germans in WC2010, I have never seen Carrick having such a disastrous performance. If England had anyone close to Xabi Alonso, that's Carrick. Now, how many goals did Xabi Alonso score? Just 37. Does that mean he is worse than Gareth Barry?

Why are you bringing Xabi Alonso into it.

Carrick and Barry.

Have you watched anything of Everton in the last 15 months ? out of curiosity. If you had you could say that, based on those 15 months, Gareth Barry is one of the premier leagues best midfielders; playing in a team that also plays a possession based style of play.

The fact you're bringing up a game that was well over 4 years ago, an international game i might add, to point out that Barry is less tactically aware than Carrick is laughable.

 

[and_solskjaers_won_it]

Why are you bringing Xabi Alonso into it.

Carrick and Barry.

Have you watched anything of Everton in the last 15 months ? out of curiosity. If you had you could say that, based on those 15 months, Gareth Barry is one of the premier leagues best midfielders; playing in a team that also plays a possession based style of play.

The fact you're bringing up a game that was 4 years ago, an international game i might add, to point out that Barry less tactically aware than Carrick is laughable.

I've seen Gareth Barry play, and I was annoyed at him. Against City all he did was passing sideways, he had two up front, he never looked up. There's no point in playing possession for the sake of it. Attack is the name of the game, I don't like keep ball, Barry for me is only as good a passer as Tom Cleverley is, a safe passer, his only outstanding aspect is his defensive game.

I could show you many examples of Barry being overrun, but I picked up an England performance, because Carrick too played for England but never looked so overrun, yet he keeps on getting ignored.

Anyway, two of the best modern football managers in Ferguson and LVG rates Carrick very highly, that's a proof of how good a player he is, whereas Barry was snubbed by Pellegrini, another top class manager.

 

[Jim Lahey]

Carrick is a fantastic player but can slow play down, depending on how you want to set out your stall. He's very intelligent and is a superb passer of the ball.

Barry is neat & tidy but doesn't have Carrick's vision in my opinion.

Both players better days are far behind them though.

 

[and_solskjaers_won_it]

You mean a bad game against German opposition - guess you didn't watch Carrick last season against Bayern, some Redcafe comments
http://www.redcafe.net/threads/michael-carrick-2013-14-performances.386527/page-5
"He's useless with the ball in these sort of games. Actually goes into hiding half the time. Summed up when he decided to kick the ball out of play instead of playing on like Rooney and Valencia were tying to do."

"I find it flabbergasting that some people actually thought Michael Carrick would show up against a Pep Guardiola midfield. He retreated into his shell once again when pressed quickly, alá Rome '09 and Wembley '11. No desire to get on the ball whatsoever. I like Carrick but that's the difference between the good players and the very, very best."

"Decent premier league player but at the top level a bottler of the highest order."

"Nah, the stick is warranted. He gave it away repeatedly. I like Carrick very much, but he was probably our worst player."

"He's useless with the ball in these sort of games. Actually goes into hiding half the time. Summed up when he decided to kick the ball out of play instead of playing on like Rooney and Valencia were tying to do."

You are right Barry doesn't attempt long balls as much as Carrick does, he is more about short passing to keep possesion which suits Martinez's style of play, but when he does one he is just as accurate as Carrick at it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...No-Steven-Gerrard-10-Mousa-Dembele-leads.html

As for Rooney I like him but despite the excellent goal ratio he has rarely bossed games for England the same way he has for United, often due to injury tbf which was also a reason for Barry's poor performance in that Germany game you slate him for.

Fans can have their say, but the truth is, we didn't have a counter tactic to which Pep Guardiola employed to stop Carrick. Do you remember how Ferguson and Klopp both stopped Xabi Alonso from influencing Real Madrid's game in 2012-13 UCL season? Does that mean Xabi Alonso is a bad player? We must remember that football is a team game, a player can be nullified very easily if their manager don't have the tactics to make the best use of them.

At Rome 09, we played a midfield of Anderson(for god's sake), 36 year old Giggs with Carrick against a quartet of Barca midfield at their prime(Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, as he came down to midfield making him a false number 9). What can Carrick do to overcome the weakness of 1 less man, 1 invisible player in Anderson, 1 old man in Giggs? We even pushed Rooney to the wings and Ronaldo as CF, which meant we were misusing the strength of both players. Tactically, in every aspect, it was a disaster, it was all down to Fergie, not Carrick.

At Wembley 11, we only had two players playing well for us, Rooney and Carrick, and still people say he played badly. If all the players around him; Park, Giggs, Valencia, Hernandez had a horrible night, what could Carrick do? Whereas we should have played technically adept players like Nani, Berbatov, we played Park and Valencia. Again, Fergie ends up with a disaster.

Carrick is a player who is best played from the deep, LVG is doing that, tactically he is better than Fergie, and he will make better use of Carrick than Fergie ever did. Fergie always struggled against better tacticians, be it Del Bosque, or Guardiola, last season we had a worse version of Fergie in Moyes, another dinosaur tactician, no wonder Carrick struggled against Bayern.

 

[Jim Lahey]

Carrick is a player you need to surround with running midfielders - you can't have him as one in the midfield two, we get overrun.

 

[blue4eva77]

I've seen Gareth Barry play, and I was annoyed at him. Against City all he did was passing sideways, he had two up front, he never looked up. There's no point in playing possession for the sake of it. Attack is the name of the game, I don't like keep ball, Barry for me is only as good a passer as Tom Cleverley is, a safe passer, his only outstanding aspect is his defensive game.

I could show you many examples of Barry being overrun, but I picked up an England performance, because Carrick too played for England but never looked so overrun, yet he keeps on getting ignored.

Anyway, two of the best modern football managers in Ferguson and LVG rates Carrick very highly, that's a proof of how good a player he is, whereas Barry was snubbed by Pellegrini, another top class manager.

Since that world cup Germany game you brought up Barry has scored more goals and has double the amount of assists as Carrick, with Carrick playing more games in this time frame. Barry has a very similar pass completion percentage as 'world class' Carrick.

Not bad for a sitting infront of the back 4 doing F all lump.

 

[and_solskjaers_won_it]

Since that world cup Germany game you brought up Barry has scored more goals and has double the amount of assists as Carrick, with Carrick playing more games in this time frame. Barry has a very similar pass completion percentage as 'world class' Carrick.

Not bad for a sitting infront of the back 4 doing F all lump.

As I said, Carrick keeps getting picked by world class managers in LVG and Fergie, and Barry was rejected by Pellegrini, another winner manager. That says it all to see which player is deemed better by the professionals who actually work in top class football.

 

[Elong]

I'm a football fan who happens to love Man Utd. Me being Man Utd doesn't mean I should neglect every other football team on earth.

Alright there mate, you sound like you need a Holiday

 

[blue4eva77]

As I said, Carrick keeps getting picked by world class managers in LVG and Fergie, and Barry was rejected by Pellegrini, another winner manager. That says it all to see which player is deemed better by the professionals who actually work in top class football.

Can you address why Barry has double the assists and has scored more goals in less games, similar pass completion than Carrick, since your world cup example ?

If Barry is nothing more than a sitting doing F all type as you say, how is that possible. Can you address these facts instead of yapping on about certain managers picking or not picking them.

 

[Jim Lahey]

Yawn. The Everton supporter will always say that Barry is the better player and the Man Utd supporter will always say that Carrick is the better player.

Such a boring debate too.

Anyway, how Stupid Are Man U? Let's discuss.