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Howard

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Brennan91 said:
He's a better keeper than at least 4 of the keepers from the 13 teams who finished below us last season, in one of the best leagues in the world. I think 'perfectly good' describes him pretty well. The teams above us all have better goal keepers but the teams above us with the exception of Newcastle spend a lot more money than we do.

Anybody thinking we can get a markedly better keeper right now (rather than blooding a young one) than Howard without spending money we don't have is wrong.
Click to expand...

That's at least partly because we sell all our young keepers isn't it?

Howard has had one good game, four average games and one poor game this year. He's not on great form and he's been generally on the decline since 2010 when he was close to one of the best in the league. Criticism of him is fair.

Now it's equally fair to say he's still good enough for a 7th place team and that we can't afford any better but well the same things were being said about Saha and Beckford pre Jelavic.

The truth is he does look like one of the weakest links in our team. I'm fine with him being our keeper for now, but if money came in he'd be one of the first people I'd be looking to replace. Say we made the champions league, would you want him in goal against the likes of Messi and Ibrahimovic? Of course you wouldn't. He's a player who suits the level we are now as a club but not the level we hope to achieve.
 
Brennan91 said:
I'd say they're more reliable than somebody saying 'Howard is gash' when the team he plays for concede the least goals of anybody in the league except City and United.
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Again they tell you jack as the major factor in how many you concede is your other 10 and how they go about the game.
 
Artetafan said:
That's at least partly because we sell all our young keepers isn't it?

Howard has had one good game, four average games and one poor game this year. He's not on great form and he's been generally on the decline since 2010 when he was close to one of the best in the league. Criticism of him is fair.

Now it's equally fair to say he's still good enough for a 7th place team and that we can't afford any better but well the same things were being said about Saha and Beckford pre Jelavic.

The truth is he does look like one of the weakest links in our team. I'm fine with him being our keeper for now, but if money came in he'd be one of the first people I'd be looking to replace. Say we made the champions league, would you want him in goal against the likes of Messi and Ibrahimovic? Of course you wouldn't. He's a player who suits the level we are now as a club but not the level we hope to achieve.
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On form i agree like, but there's also a smattering of people saying he's never been good enough for us, which i just don't buy. His numbers for the past three seasons align with those i posted above, his only real dip in form has been at the start of this season, but all players experience those.

I'd be looking at:

Midfield
Striker
Centre Half

Before replacing Howard, tbh. And before people question my CB listing there, Distin is 1 injury away from being out for good, and i would not be shocked to see Heitinga leaving.

Personally i think Howard's fine, i can understand people wanting to get a better keeper, but i can't understand people saying he's not good enough for us as things stand.
 

GK is like CB in the sense that you only make a mental note when they really screw up. Howard when he screws up. He really screws up. The stats prove he is a good keeper. There are people that say he is gash. There are people that say he is good.

GK is not a priority and if you think it is, you just have an agenda against him and should create a Howard is gash clique.. I know who the leader could be!!

We could do better if we had cash, we dont so he is good enough.
 
Elong said:
The reality is he's the keeper for the level Everton is at.
Click to expand...

That's entirely true.

But we're fortunate enough to have players in defence (Baines, Heitinga), midfield (Fellaini, Pienaar) and up front (Jelavic) who play at a higher level than 7th in the premier league.

Which is why we have hopes of achievieng above that level. Howard, like Osman or Distin or our three right backs, isn't a player who's better than 7th in the league. I believe that we as a club are.
 
Brennan91 said:
[TABLE="width: 600"]
[TR]
[TD]2011/12 Stat[/TD]
[TD]Tim Howard[/TD]
[TD]Shay Given[/TD]
[TD]Mark Schwarzer[/TD]
[TD]Simon Mignolet[/TD]
[TD]Ali Al-Habsi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Minutes played[/TD]
[TD]3420[/TD]
[TD]2828[/TD]
[TD]2700[/TD]
[TD]2573[/TD]
[TD]3420[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Clean sheets (per game)[/TD]
[TD]12 (0.31)[/TD]
[TD]8 (0.25)[/TD]
[TD]10 (0.33)[/TD]
[TD]11 (0.37)[/TD]
[TD]8 (0.21)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Penalties faced (saved)[/TD]
[TD]4 (2)[/TD]
[TD]5 (0)[/TD]
[TD]3 (0)[/TD]
[TD]3 (1)[/TD]
[TD]8 (4)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Goals conceded[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]33[/TD]
[TD]62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]GC per game[/TD]
[TD]1.05[/TD]
[TD]1.41[/TD]
[TD]1.23[/TD]
[TD]1.14[/TD]
[TD]1.63[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]High Cross Catches[/TD]
[TD]54[/TD]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD]38[/TD]
[TD]39[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Missed Crosses[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Punches[/TD]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Defensive Errors[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

+ Less goals conceded per game than any of the other keepers.
+ Second highest number of high cross catches per game (after Schwarzer)
+ Lowest number of defensive errors
- Poor number of missed crosses compared to other keepers

The only place where he falls behind a bit is in making sure he either clears the ball with a punch or catches the ball from a cross, which everybody knew anyway. In every other department he's a perfectly good keeper.

Then again, i think all the sensible people knew that anyway..
Click to expand...

There is a massive difference in mins played there lid.

Hardly a smoking gun when you consider, the others play in gasher teams really - not that i think thats your main mistake.
 
Artetafan said:
That's at least partly because we sell all our young keepers isn't it?

Howard has had one good game, four average games and one poor game this year. He's not on great form and he's been generally on the decline since 2010 when he was close to one of the best in the league. Criticism of him is fair.

Now it's equally fair to say he's still good enough for a 7th place team and that we can't afford any better but well the same things were being said about Saha and Beckford pre Jelavic.

The truth is he does look like one of the weakest links in our team. I'm fine with him being our keeper for now, but if money came in he'd be one of the first people I'd be looking to replace. Say we made the champions league, would you want him in goal against the likes of Messi and Ibrahimovic? Of course you wouldn't. He's a player who suits the level we are now as a club but not the level we hope to achieve.
Click to expand...

Look at the defending. He's been put in a lot of bad spots this season. It's to be expected with our new aggressive play. Not to say his play has been up to his standard, but every player has a rough patch from time to time. It seems as though our defenders are getting a pass even though they've been carved open plenty and our marking has been poor at times. Howard is a scapegoat for some at the moment. Have people been talking about the marking on the goal we conceded against Saints? No. Have people been talking about how our defense allowed Ba to get in behind everyone in stoppage time for the second against Newcastle? No. Some of the goals we have conceded have been pathetic all around. It hasn't just been Howard who has had gash moments. He's just the one that has been highlighted. I'd take Howard over all but about 3 or 4 keepers in the league. Brennan's stats explain why.

FFS how many times did Swansea get in behind us, and Howard had to save the day?
 

Peter Shilton once claimed his best games often came when he hardly touched the ball but had organised his defence so well he didn't have to. A goalkeeper should make good defenders play better.
 
Artetafan said:
That's entirely true.

But we're fortunate enough to have players in defence (Baines, Heitinga), midfield (Fellaini, Pienaar) and up front (Jelavic) who play at a higher level than 7th in the premier league.

Which is why we have hopes of achievieng above that level. Howard, like Osman or Distin or our three right backs, isn't a player who's better than 7th in the league. I believe that we as a club are.
Click to expand...

Oh for sure mate, I guess I mean financially too, we're going to struggle to afford a better keeper than who we currently have because there's always other priorities every summer.

Perhaps we should be doing better, I think 5th-6th is where we should be as a club each season, for that reason I see Howard as that bracket of keeper. Catch 22, we won't progress without better players, but we can't afford better players without investment or from reaching higher positions on the table. Howard represents Everton's status for me.
 
Artetafan said:
Peter Shilton once claimed his best games often came when he hardly touched the ball but had organised his defence so well he didn't have to. A goalkeeper should make good defenders play better.
Click to expand...

Good defenders should make any goalkeeper look better as well... It's a double edged sword.
 
One thing that will always bug me about Howard is his kicking. I'm not talking about under pressure kicks as he seems to do those fairly well, I mean goal kicks and ones when he has time. I don't know how many times he's kicked it to where there isn't' a blue for 10 yds, and he's got length issues too :unsure:
 
carolinablue232 said:
Good defenders should make any goalkeeper look better as well... It's a double edged sword.
Click to expand...

That's fair. And neither side are doing great. Heitinga, Distin and Howard can compete over who's been the least effective this season. (Also our midfielders and the two full backs have left our actually defenders completely exposed at times, to be fair. Short term the problem's at the back will probably look a lot better with Gibson back in the team and Coleman out of it.) When our defence had their best game (against Man U) Howard wasn't needed much and when Howard had his best game (against Swansea) our defence didn't bother to turn up.

Mind in the Villa game, we actually gave Howard some decent protection that game and yet he still gifted them a goal.
 

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