James McCarthy

[bluestevon]

Answer me this then - if we hadn't signed McCarthy, would there have been a load of unchallenged posts from Evertonians saying "we've dodged a bullet there...", "thank God we haven't paid £10m+ for Mr. Average" etc?

Seriously, could you imagine any thread being started which expressed the thought "I'm gutted we missed out on James McCarthy for £13m"?

Perhaps the answers to those two questions will get you to my train of thought on this. I'm neither immediately positive or negative about anything to do with Everton; I look at everything on merit. I don't feel the need to hop onto one side of the fence depending on what anyone else is saying.

Hard one to answer honestly, i think if we hadnt signed anyone with that 13m or part of it, then the place would be a total uproar mate, the majority i'd say were saying 6-8 great business 10 or over were overpaying and 15m+ ****ing no chance hes worth that

For what its worth, my opinion was he was worth 8m due to being dropped down a division and the effect it has on a players worth in the marketplace, had wigan stayed up would have been around the 10-12m mark due to age, potential and the fact right now he looks a good technical player whose homegrown, which always gets a premium


we payed more for the same reason utd did and because of it, wigan had us over a barrel, yes we overpayed by imo about 4-5m for him, but i am also happy we got him, so its a strange mixed emotions over the deal, im kinda aware enough to realise that if wed got him for 8m though the other 5m wouldnt be used on the squad just because in theory it was their, arteta money bill wtf is it etc

Edit as i forgot to give you an answer, i couldnt imagine any threads saying gutted we didnt get him for 13m etc, but i could imagine a fair few thinking for the sake of a few million which maybe would dissapear anyways that we should have

 

[Winci]

We are so skint I can understand some's frustration with McCarthy's price tag, but the truth is it's not his fault. A players value is determined by alot of different things, Mirallas for example was worth probably twice as much as what we paid for him. Michu was probably worth 4 or 5 times what Swansea paid for him. It is what its is, the transfer market is crazy.

Just get behind the boy and pray Martinez gets all the money left from Fallaini+Anichebe so we can sign a few more quality players in January and next summer.

 

[bluemangroup]

It just doesn't sit well with me, that's all. It's "kopitey". I've seen "Joe Allen passes like Xavi" and "Jordan Henderson is the next Gerrard" so often that it disturbs me to see Evertonians trying to delude themselves about McCarthy's qualities and try to justify the fee just because he's signed on the dotted line.

If people are honest with themselves, on balance it's more likely we've overpaid for a squad player than it is that we've unearthed a gem who'll develop into something special. That is perhaps what is getting under my skin the most - the feeling that what people are typing here isn't their honest opinion; rather it's the desire to just get behind the lad because he's here. I understand it, but... I'd rather people were just honest about their misgivings (as, indeed, people were in the transfer thread before he actually signed).

The irony is that if you go to the Summer Transfer Window thread you'll see me actually defending the interest in McCarthy (here: http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/t...transfer-rumourZ-thread?p=2147410#post2147410)

The problem now is that instead of being a squad player bought in for around £6m (which I would have applauded; McCarthy is certainly a good squad option and worth a punt at that price), he's a marque signing for £13m. So instead of being an astute signing to replace Osman, he's now the next big thing in our midfield.

It's not the lads fault he has that price tag, but it is what it is - we're Everton, and £13m is a massive sum of money for us. It's £5-7m out of our January budget. That's a whole Kevin Mirallas to put it in perspective.

I just think it's silly to actually try and justify it and claim it was a good deal, because based on the level he's at now and the ability he has shown, we've overpaid dramatically.

So to sum up in one thought - I can't call it a good signing, and I can't understand those who say it definitely IS a good signing. I'm hoping beyond hope we haven't just signed a very expensive Scot Gemmill.

Hmmmm. We sit on different sides of the fence on this one in parts.
I don't think he was brought in as a squad player nor was he ever likely to be. Already he far exceeds what we have in the middle in terms of talent consistently (Osman) and purely by attendance (Gibson). These aren't great criteria with which to sell him on, I appreciate, but he is an improvement on what we have. He does have the potential to get better in my opinion, I know you don't concur with that, but you do agree, at the moment, he is a little timid pass-wise. If he improves upon that, and he is capable, he is the metronome figure in the midfield. He passes and moves very well, even now and playing with better players who move well for him, he'll improve accordingly, I think.
I know it's difficult to not analyse him as a player alone, but it's the effect on the team he will have that has cost us as much. The midfield has been pedestrian on occasions and we have looked a bit brittle without the ball. He will improve us on the pitch in those areas as a proper midfielder and hopefully it improves the overall play in the team.
We've relied far too heavily on an unorthodox but very effective CM in Fellaini. Spreading the talent about a bit in the team seems like a better way of doing it.
The deal in itself, I agree was too much. I think, at most 10m should be what we paid. What is value for money in this league at the moment though anyway? But if 13m is the price of improving the entire team and implementing the system Martinez wants through one player, at an age where he can still go and get better, then if not a price I would want to pay, it's a price I can live with.

 

[Maestro Haze]

Just to echo what has previously been said.

We are and going to be playing under Martinez's new formula for a good long while, at least a season minimum, so we need players that will fit that new system well.

McCarthy has already shown that he can play under that system as he with Martinez for four years.
The stats that were already shown in this thread are proof that he is statistically a better player in that role than Osman and in some aspects Gibson also.

He's young, agile and a good passer.
Quite a few were moaning when Fellaini came for £15m and had a pretty average and indifferent first season.
Give the lad a chance to play in an Everton shirt before you bemoan such a transfer fee.

Our midfield has been so slow at getting the ball foward and it's the lack of intensity and pace on our passing system which has annoyed me most regardless of the amount of possession we have had.

This lad will help improve that and get the ball moving a lot quicker than Osman and probably Gibson too, who is still massively important for us.

Ultimately, time will tell along with games, but Martinez knows well, we wouldn't have spunked £13m on him if he didn't think he was good enough. I trust his judgment, so should everyone else, and get behind the lad.

 

[the_tourist]

Yes, we paid over the odds for him and yes dave whelan is a ^^&*

at the same time will McCarthy play an important role?

Yes.

 

[Greek Fisherman]

Fellaini is irreplaceable. I'm still gutted.

Initially I didn't want McCarthy as he was being positioned as a replacement for Felli. He is not. Martinez wanted McCarthy to play alongside Felli. Listen to the Martinez press conference from yesterday where he states he is still interested in Fernando from Porto.

In an interview before the game against Scotland, Felli stated (in English) that Everton had asked him to stay!
We were always going to sell for 27.5 rather then lose him for 23.5 come January.

The McCarthy deal was on the table (regardless of the Felli sale) as long as Wigan agreed to the pay structure - over 3yrs.

Martinez was also asked if there was any chance the Lukaku deal would be made permanent, which he indirectly responded to with a - we'll cross that bridge if and when appropriate.

This all suggests we have money and McCarthy was no panic buy. I'm sure all the skeptics will come out in Jan with the "where's the Felliaini money bill?" but realistically, depending on how we are going, the club might sit tight in the hope of making Deulofeu or Lukaku permanent, as remote as that might sound at this point in time.

If you are bored, go and have a read of this thread about James McCarthy on the Utd forum. It was started back in 2010. Some suggesting we have ourselves are real gem.

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/james-mccarthy.288264/

 

[eigh]

My gut says that McCarthy will be better in Martinez's system, have more drive and passion, and over all a better player

 

[TheFinnFan]

That redcafe link was very interesting.


"will sign with us in 4 years for £25m"

 

[Jags..class]

£27.5m move to the champions of England.

He's an astonishing player.

See, if I were a Kopite, I'd be burning his shirt and sending bullets in the post.

I would agree if Fergie was still manager. The truth is the same manager had now bought him twice. He went for 27 million cos Moyes panicked in the last 5 minutes. Moyes original value of the best DM in Europe was 16 million.

 

[eigh]

Fellaini is irreplaceable. I'm still gutted.

Initially I didn't want McCarthy as he was being positioned as a replacement for Felli. He is not. Martinez wanted McCarthy to play alongside Felli. Listen to the Martinez press conference from yesterday where he states he is still interested in Fernando from Porto.

In an interview before the game against Scotland, Felli stated (in English) that Everton had asked him to stay!
We were always going to sell for 27.5 rather then lose him for 23.5 come January.

The McCarthy deal was on the table (regardless of the Felli sale) as long as Wigan agreed to the pay structure - over 3yrs.

Martinez was also asked if there was any chance the Lukaku deal would be made permanent, which he indirectly responded to with a - we'll cross that bridge if and when appropriate.

This all suggests we have money and McCarthy was no panic buy. I'm sure all the skeptics will come out in Jan with the "where's the Felliaini money bill?" but realistically, depending on how we are going, the club might sit tight in the hope of making Deulofeu or Lukaku permanent, as remote as that might sound at this point in time.

If you are bored, go and have a read of this thread about James McCarthy on the Utd forum. It was started back in 2010. Some suggesting we have ourselves are real gem.

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/james-mccarthy.288264/

Thanks! Great analysis. Good find

 

[davek]

Fellaini is irreplaceable. I'm still gutted.

Initially I didn't want McCarthy as he was being positioned as a replacement for Felli. He is not. Martinez wanted McCarthy to play alongside Felli. Listen to the Martinez press conference from yesterday where he states he is still interested in Fernando from Porto.

In an interview before the game against Scotland, Felli stated (in English) that Everton had asked him to stay!
We were always going to sell for 27.5 rather then lose him for 23.5 come January.

The McCarthy deal was on the table (regardless of the Felli sale) as long as Wigan agreed to the pay structure - over 3yrs.

Martinez was also asked if there was any chance the Lukaku deal would be made permanent, which he indirectly responded to with a - we'll cross that bridge if and when appropriate.

This all suggests we have money and McCarthy was no panic buy. I'm sure all the skeptics will come out in Jan with the "where's the Felliaini money bill?" but realistically, depending on how we are going, the club might sit tight in the hope of making Deulofeu or Lukaku permanent, as remote as that might sound at this point in time.

If you are bored, go and have a read of this thread about James McCarthy on the Utd forum. It was started back in 2010. Some suggesting we have ourselves are real gem.

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/james-mccarthy.288264/

Experienced Everton boardroom watchers had their ears tuned into the statements regarding future excuses this week. The message for consumption was that Everton didn't need the Fellaini cash to trigger the McCarthy deal (strictly for the birds that line - they were so close together it beggars belief they weren't dependent) and the undertone has been peddled by the local hacks that maybe we're looking good for January if we need to buy. However, the other statement to come out this week that went under the radar a bit was that the club will now be looking to tie down existing key squad players with longer and bigger contracts. We've been down this road before with this lot: we know they've sold us the 'choice' before between landing new signings or using cash to extend contracts. I believe that's what we'll hear more and more of in the run up to January.

They always have an answer for poor financing of the team. They're a disgrace. Our first window just gone by under a new manager who needs to get 'a few bob' spent, to use Billy Liar's words, and we end up with a negative net spend of 12/13M.

Unreal.

Gangsters running this club.

 

[Steve Wigan]

Experienced Everton boardroom watchers had their ears tuned into the statements regarding future excuses this week. The message for consumption was that Everton didn't need the Fellaini cash to trigger the McCarthy deal (strictly for the birds that line - they were so close together it beggars belief they weren't dependent) and the undertone has been peddled by the local hacks that maybe we're looking good for January if we need to buy. However, the other statement to come out this week that went under the radar a bit was that the club will now be looking to tie down existing key squad players with longer and bigger contracts. We've been down this road before with this lot: we know they've sold us the 'choice' before between landing new signings or using cash to extend contracts. I believe that's what we'll hear more and more of in the run up to January.

They always have an answer for poor financing of the team. They're a disgrace. Our first window just gone by under a new manager who needs to get 'a few bob' spent, to use Billy Liar's words, and we end up with a negative net spend of 12/13M.

Unreal.

Gangsters running this club.

So...if people are pocketing the money.......call the police unless you condone 'gangsters'.

 

[Pabbers]

For a bit of balance here.

Is in not more important that we improve the team, regardless off the amount spent ??

Do people just want the money to be spen, regardless ??

 

[davek]

So...if people are pocketing the money.......call the police unless you condone 'gangsters'.

Unfortunately, Her Majesty's constabulary dont have the power to force open company books nor prise open the doors of offshore financial vehicles.

 

[davek]

For a bit of balance here.

Is in not more important that we improve the team, regardless off the amount spent ??

Do people just want the money to be spen, regardless ??

That's true. It just so happens though that money spent invariably dictates league position attained. And we do have a club CEO adamant that 'every penny available is spent on the team'. We've taken much more in than spent this summer.