January 2019 Transfer Window

[Zatara]

This is an important point. Taking a side from mid table to challenging the top 4/5/6 is actually not too difficult. You could well argue that the squad Brands put together at PSV would likely finish 7th most seasons here on a fraction of the cost. It was not difficult to improve the likes of Martina, Williams and essentially a group of young, inconsistent players.

We will soon get to a point where improving certain players is going to cost serious money, arguably money we don't have easily available often for players who will not want to join us.

That was kind of my point re the 85 side really mate, that we can put together a very talented team that can compete to win anything but it doesn't always mean singing 11 galaticos. It's about getting the right blend as much as it is getting the best player in a position.

For me this team will quite quickly be at the point where it needs to grow together with the young coach. That what will be needed is tinkering as opposed to wholesale changes.

I agree you with Coleman too. I still see people having a pop at him but in the last 2 games neither Mane or Hazard have scored or contributed to a goal down his side. Yes there were undoubtedly some hairy moments as you would expect against players of that quality. But at the very least you would say Coleman gave as good as he got against 2 of the league in the league in that position. You could well say Coleman got the better of both. He also seems to be carrying the ball forward with more confidence down (though I think he still has another gear in this regard).

His defending is quite underrated really. I'd now happily leave him 1 v 1 against most wingers. If we are going to bring in a winger ahead of him, be it Lozano, Richarlinson playing out there or Lookman nailing down the place that skill will be very important.

I like the lad Wan Bissaka but throwing £50+million on him would to me scream of an unnecessary extravagance in the above context.

I'm not sure why improving on certain players would cost 'serious money' ?

If we use the example of Coleman, what would he fetch on the market, lets say £20mil ? Digne was signed for £18mil and is a top player. For what its worth, Miltao at Porto is supposedly valued at £20mil+.

If we did sell Gana for say £30mil then Ndombele is supposedly valued at £60mil. Throw in schneiderlin, Besic and McCarthy and we'd not be far off.

I cant see us spending huge money on individuals unless we offload a few players out for fees...at the moments of course its all hypothetical.

Brands may have some players like Ndombele who he wants but who have yet to make the step up.

I thought doucoure was poor last night. I know he was up against a very good side.

He does get around the pitch, very strong and fit, but technically I thought he was poor, gave the ball away loads. Definitely not worth a big outlay imo.

Zat for the last time we are not selling Gana
Buying an understudy possibly
Buying someone to rotate with him in certain games maybe
Selling him is not an option

I would agree 90% but everyone has a price. And if a big offer comes in who knows, especially with him turning 30 in the summer

Won’t happen
He is too vital for us at the moment
He allows Gomes to spread his sexiness all over the pitch

It's not a position where age matters as much though

Makélélé was joining Chelsea at Gana's age and had five successful years there

Defensive midfield is not a position where age is as much of a factor

I suppose it depends how much money we have. I don’t think Brands would think twice about selling a first team player, if a big offer came in. And he thinks he could improve the team, with that money.

I disagree slightly, gana will not be able to do what he’s doing now, at 34. Also makelele was surrounded by world class players

Well give us a couple more windows and Gana might have some good players around him too

Very premature to discuss cashing in on/culling him at the moment, especially when he's so pivotal to how we play

Agreed
While he is not as vital against the lesser sides the work he does against the better sides and away from home is invaluable
Granted on the ball he is not perfect but what he brings to the team as a unit can’t be underestimated

Like I said I doubt it wil happen. But I also think gana isn’t the number 6 Silva wants, I think he definitely wants someone technically better for that role. We will see

It’s very likely Silva does want someone more technical for that role at times
However in certain games Gana is the ideal player in that role at this moment in time.
So if another No6 is bought I would say it will be as a rotation choice not as a swap
Why would you sell the best player in his position in the league.
Kante is obviously a better DM but doesn’t play there under Sarri

I think Gana is a good player.

However, i think theres 2 ways to look at this...

1 -- Can we afford another player to compete with Gana? Perhaps a player under £15mil who hasnt made the step up yet...another Kante, Ndombele from the french league perhaps?

2 -- Gana has a decent resale value, perhaps brands will look at him and other centre mids and offload to bring in.

The way Gana (and others) are spoken about is a bit OTT i think. Hes hardly Busquets and I wonder if Brands could sign the next superstar would people still complain about selling Gana?

I guess it depends on how much faith you have in Brands.

 

[den1]

They will sell Omar Niasse & Morgan Schneiderlin & buy Gabriel Barbosa Almeida (Gabigol )

 

[Zatara]

They will sell Omar Niasse & Morgan Schneiderlin & buy Gabriel Barbosa Almeida (Gabigol )

Think they will loan him...

 

[hallamblue]

Gana £30mil perhaps

FFS he was JOKING. The guy went as a fan.

 

[jazzy]

It’s very likely Silva does want someone more technical for that role at times
However in certain games Gana is the ideal player in that role at this moment in time.
So if another No6 is bought I would say it will be as a rotation choice not as a swap
Why would you sell the best player in his position in the league.
Kante is obviously a better DM but doesn’t play there under Sarri

You think he is better than Fernandinho ?

 

[Brisan123]

You think he is better than Fernandinho ?

No forgot about him , but Fernandinho is a different type of DM
He doesn’t tackle or Harry as much as Gana and doesn’t recover possession as much
Stats for this season and last prove this
City play a different way to us and need a different type of DM

 

[messymascot]

Gueye is a tricky one as he works well with Gomes. In would definitely keep him while Gomes is here. However if we don't get Gomes we may look at getting 2 new midfielders in the summer who will blend together. That would make Gueye back up. Or we buy someone that compliments Gueye and we would still need at least one back up as Schneiderlin is done with us, McCarthy and Basic injury prone, Davies, Williams, Baningime ok as 4th choice but not ready to be 3rd choice yet.

 

[den1]

Think they will loan him...

That's if they can!

 

[Zatara]

There's zero evidence he hasn't got that in his locker though?

We got £15m for Klaassen. I liked Davy, but after the disastrous season last year could we expect more? We have got loan fees for other players, one of which (Besic) would have been a permanent transfer for more than we paid for him initially if not for image rights?

We got £10m for Funes Mori.

Other than that we haven't had any players to sell/that we've needed to sell?

So you must be getting your theory from his days at PSV, well let's see. All prices are Euros.

In his first season, 2010-11 PSV sold two players who were in the last year of their contracts. That was Carlos Salcido (aged 30, a defender) for 1.6m to Fulham and Ibrahim Afellay (24) for 2m to Barcelona (Afellay had 6 months left on his deal at the time).

2011/12, they signed Strootman and Mertens for a combined fee of 13m, and Wijnaldum for 5m. Those purchases were offset by the 15m sale of Balasz Dzsudzsak and 3m sale of Francisco Rodriguez.

2012/13 a lot of free transfers both in and out.

In 2013/14, there was a big squad turnaround. A combined 11m was spent on six players, including Adam Maher (a prestigious young talent), Bruma (who has been a stalwart there IIRC), Zoet (current no.1 and Netherlands international) and Santiago Arias (now at Atletico Madrid).

They sold Mertens for 9.5m, having signed him for approx 6m in the deal with Strootman, who in turn went for 19m (6m more than the COMBINED fee paid for him and Mertens). So, 28.5m compared to 13m layout - I'd say that's good value.

They also got 4m for Erik Pieters, 3.5m for Ola Toivonen, and 10m for Jeremain Lens.

Memphis Depay was the next big sale, 30m to Manchester United in 2014. Not good value? They also sold Andreas Pereira to United, while bringing in Luuk de Jong (6m), and Andres Guardado (loan).

2015/16 - Wijnaldum sold for 17m having signed for 5m.

2016/17 - Sold Narsingh for 6m, having initially signed on a free.

2017/18 - Sold Guardado after he had helped them move back to the top in Netherlands, supposed fee of 2.5m for a 32-yr-old. Jetro Willems went for 7m. Locadia went to Brighton for 16m. Davy Propper went for 6m. Hector Moreno went for 8m.

Great work Toff.

£15M back for a £25M player of 12 months standing; £10M for an Argentinian international who;s oin his early 20s and who cost about that when we bought him?

Great value for money on those two?

Please.

The incoming fees for PSV are not the issue; incomings is not my argument.

Dave, you're saying (if im not wrong) that Brands has failed in 50% of his job which is offloading players.

A few points;

1 -- Klaassen couldnt get past any of our midfielders. None of them, not even an 18 year old or an absolute donkey. Its obvious (like i said at the time) that he was massively overrated and unsuited to the prem. For what its worth hes played 13 games for Bremen and scored 2 and assisted 2. Hardly tearing up the German league where £15mil is a rather decent fee.

2 -- Funes Mori was signed for around £8mil and we sold him for a slight profit. Again, its clear that he wasnt tearing things up with us and so we did ok (not great) on the fee...remember it was initially stated as £16mil and everyone was in shock?

We still made a 'book value' profit of £8mil signing fee ÷ 5 year contract = £3.2mil book value. Sold for around £10mil so a book value profit of £6.8mil.

3-- To calculate sales is a bit tricky but basically if a player is signed for £10mil on a 5 year deal then his 'book value' (in theory) decreases by £2mil a season.

Therefore if we sold lets say Bolasie for 10mil or Schneiderlin for similar (lets be honest they arent worth much more especially on massive wages) we wouldnt just take a loss, wed also take a 'book value' loss which contributes to our spending power as per the regulations.

By loaning out certain players like Bolasie etc we would cover most (or all) of their wages, receive a loan fee and then next summer when they are sold we would then potentially breakeven or in fact make a profit on their book fee -- giving us greater spending power.

Another example would be Niasse. He was signed for £13.5mil on a 5 year deal.

In Jan 2019 that would be 3 years in, giving him a book value of £5.4mil = anything over that is pure profit as per the regulations.

There could be method in this madness perhaps?

 

[Frang]

I’ve gone right off him mate.

he was klopps hardest working player when he first arrived, and Klopp has worked him in to the ground. his body is completely broken now.

 

[TheBigIguana]

No forgot about him , but Fernandinho is a different type of DM
He doesn’t tackle or Harry as much as Gana and doesn’t recover possession as much
Stats for this season and last prove this
City play a different way to us and need a different type of DM

Fernandinho wouldn't be able to play for Everton because he wouldn't get the benefit of the doubt over bookings he gets at City and would be constantly sent off and suspended here. But you're right City play differently and need a different player in that spot than we do so it's a tough comparison.

 

[Frang]

imagine gana going spurs and gomes back to barca come the end of season and we starting with davies and shcniderfraud again.

no nor me.

 

[LocalNative]

Gana £30mil perhaps

If someone offered £30m I think it would be hard for the club to say no - be tough to replace him though.

All hypothetical though.

 

[Neiler]

Great work Toff.




Dave, you're saying (if im not wrong) that Brands has failed in 50% of his job which is offloading players.

A few points;

1 -- Klaassen couldnt get past any of our midfielders. None of them, not even an 18 year old or an absolute donkey. Its obvious (like i said at the time) that he was massively overrated and unsuited to the prem. For what its worth hes played 13 games for Bremen and scored 2 and assisted 2. Hardly tearing up the German league where £15mil is a rather decent fee.

2 -- Funes Mori was signed for around £8mil and we sold him for a slight profit. Again, its clear that he wasnt tearing things up with us and so we did ok (not great) on the fee...remember it was initially stated as £16mil and everyone was in shock?

We still made a 'book value' profit of £8mil signing fee ÷ 5 year contract = £3.2mil book value. Sold for around £10mil so a book value profit of £6.8mil.

3-- To calculate sales is a bit tricky but basically if a player is signed for £10mil on a 5 year deal then his 'book value' (in theory) decreases by £2mil a season.

Therefore if we sold lets say Bolasie for 10mil or Schneiderlin for similar (lets be honest they arent worth much more especially on massive wages) we wouldnt just take a loss, wed also take a 'book value' loss which contributes to our spending power as per the regulations.


By loaning out certain players like Bolasie etc we would cover most (or all) of their wages, receive a loan fee and then next summer when they are sold we would then potentially breakeven or in fact make a profit on their book fee -- giving us greater spending power.

Another example would be Niasse. He was signed for £13.5mil on a 5 year deal.

In Jan 2019 that would be 3 years in, giving him a book value of £5.4mil = anything over that is pure profit as per the regulations.

There could be method in this madness perhaps?

Likes it!!

 

[zook]

Fernandinho wouldn't be able to play for Everton because he wouldn't get the benefit of the doubt over bookings he gets at City and would be constantly sent off and suspended here. But you're right City play differently and need a different player in that spot than we do so it's a tough comparison.

I've noticed this with Fernandinho, genuinely think he should have had a sending off in half the games I've seen him - he is a terrific footballer and I suppose he'd be caught out less if every attack City faces wasn't a counter with half their team high up the pitch but I think that is a way you can expose them (or at least weaken) if you get him on an early booking.