Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

2021/22 Jordan Pickford

Status
Not open for further replies.
Parker NSNO said:
Yeah I must've imagined the saves he was doing for England on the weekend, or the double save against City and just look at that Palace game. The chances this defence surrenders are like penalties every time. And he still managed to pull of a ridiculous stop in that, which still lead to a goal because this defence is woeful.

Just going through the goals in the last few weeks and they've all been clear cut chances where the defence has failed him. Though he was poor against Spurs.

If we go down, he'll go to a better team. I'm thinking West Ham would go for him.
Click to expand...
The Palace game he let a goal go in straight down the middle of the net. It takes a lot of saves to make up for that.

West Ham have two better keepers on their books today.
 
TheBigIguana said:
The Palace game he let a goal go in straight down the middle of the net. It takes a lot of saves to make up for that.

West Ham have two better keepers on their books today.
Click to expand...
That free hit from the pen spot yeah?

The one that Holgate let go through his legs and left Pickford unsighted?

That entire game was just defensive calamity after defensive calamity, none of them doing their jobs.

Seriously though, I agree that he could've saved it. But its not as bad as you say it is. My problem is i think he shouldve gone with his feet for that one. A top keeper would have saved it. But that's the difference.
 
TheBigIguana said:
The Palace game he let a goal go in straight down the middle of the net. It takes a lot of saves to make up for that.

West Ham have two better keepers on their books today.
Click to expand...

That was the header from pretty much point blank range wasnt it?

TV just does not convey the actual speed and power top footballers can generate with a header. Nor a shot for that matter. An exceptional keeper might have got near it. Pickford is very good, but not at that level. Few are.
 
Parker NSNO said:
That free hit from the pen spot yeah?

The one that Holgate let go through his legs and left Pickford unsighted?

That entire game was just defensive calamity after defensive calamity, none of them doing their jobs.

Seriously though, I agree that he could've saved it. But its not as bad as you say it is. My problem is i think he shouldve gone with his feet for that one. A top keeper would have saved it. But that's the difference.
Click to expand...
When people evaluate him they include a lot of what imo is irrelevant extra factors. He needs to save shots, unmarked or not. When the ball is literally hitting the dead center at reasonable pace he has to save it. I don't feel like he was particularly bad at Palace and yet for me the average a keeper concedes given the shots he faced is a full goal below the four that Pickford allowed.
 
roydo said:
That was the header from pretty much point blank range wasnt it?

TV just does not convey the actual speed and power top footballers can generate with a header. Nor a shot for that matter. An exceptional keeper might have got near it. Pickford is very good, but not at that level. Few are.
Click to expand...
No it wasn't.
 

roydo said:
The Holgate one then, as the lad above remembers.
Click to expand...
It's just an eminently saveable shot. Make the excuses again if you please, I'm kind of done with "he was unsighted" or "it was a great strike" when there aren't any saves on those to make up for the ones he doesn't get.

My main frustration isn't that he's horrendous so much as we're just stuck with him. I'd feel the same way if we were just stuck with Holgate or Doucoure but I get the sense we understand they need to be moved on from.
 
TheBigIguana said:
When people evaluate him they include a lot of what imo is irrelevant extra factors. He needs to save shots, unmarked or not. When the ball is literally hitting the dead center at reasonable pace he has to save it. I don't feel like he was particularly bad at Palace and yet for me the average a keeper concedes given the shots he faced is a full goal below the four that Pickford allowed.
Click to expand...
You said you liked using the stats to back this up. Obviously XG against is the measure of the quality and frequency of chances conceded and there'll be some kind of metric that shows the relationship between that and goals that the keeper has prevented. I assume Pickford performs poorly in this based of what you are saying.

But I remember a statistical breakdown of how Burnley defend, they allowed shots but funneled them into areas that made them more saveable for Pope. Would this not show an inflated performance if you look at the stats as Pope will be hit with a lot of shots but few with a high XG. Giving the appearance that he is performing better for what are a lot of routine saves.

I just think that the relationship between a goalkeepers statistical performance and the defences are intertwined and they both massively affect the other. We give away a lot of clear cut chances which I imagine will have a massive effect on XG.
 

Pickford makes saves that are top class. We have all seen them. The problem is that he still concedes quite a lot of goals where you think that he should do better. It is this reason that he would never be trusted at a top club fighting for trophies. He is still a good goalkeeper and I think he will be at Everton for a long time.
 
TheBigIguana said:
It's just an eminently saveable shot. Make the excuses again if you please, I'm kind of done with "he was unsighted" or "it was a great strike" when there aren't any saves on those to make up for the ones he doesn't get.

My main frustration isn't that he's horrendous so much as we're just stuck with him. I'd feel the same way if we were just stuck with Holgate or Doucoure but I get the sense we understand they need to be moved on from.
Click to expand...

He is a PL level keeper, who seems to have got over his younger tantrum phase. If a large bid came in for him, (which I doubt cos most clubs are well stocked in the position), fine, sell.

But the reason Everton are where we are is not down to the goal keeper.
 
roydo said:
He is a PL level keeper, who seems to have got over his younger tantrum phase. If a large bid came in for him, (which I doubt cos most clubs are well stocked in the position), fine, sell.

But the reason Everton are where we are is not down to the goal keeper.
Click to expand...
I think we need to try to turn over the entire club in the next 3 to 5 years. No one is exempt at this point.

Look at West Ham in 17/18 versus now. Basically everyone is new. And even Antonio who stayed is sort of new because he plays a completely different position now. That's a rebuild we can in theory model ourselves on. West Ham had Adrian playing at a similar level to Pickford then. They've upgraded because they could. We should if we can.
 
Parker NSNO said:
You said you liked using the stats to back this up. Obviously XG against is the measure of the quality and frequency of chances conceded and there'll be some kind of metric that shows the relationship between that and goals that the keeper has prevented. I assume Pickford performs poorly in this based of what you are saying.

But I remember a statistical breakdown of how Burnley defend, they allowed shots but funneled them into areas that made them more saveable for Pope. Would this not show an inflated performance if you look at the stats as Pope will be hit with a lot of shots but few with a high XG. Giving the appearance that he is performing better for what are a lot of routine saves.

I just think that the relationship between a goalkeepers statistical performance and the defences are intertwined and they both massively affect the other. We give away a lot of clear cut chances which I imagine will have a massive effect on XG.
Click to expand...
I look at post shot xG, a different stat designed to measure goalkeepers. It factors in where the ball ends up with regard to the goal. So a shot off target is automatically a 0 because it could not have been a goal. Standard xG doesn't do this and as you've said isn't useful for measuring goalkeepers as a result.

Basically you take the PSxG and subtract out the goals conceded. You want have a positive number per 90 minutes. Pickford doesn't. The only year he has in the last three was last year and even then he was still like 13th in the league or something. He's got time left this year but I don't see anything to suggest it'll swing massively.

It's just one metric but I like metrics and there aren't tons available. As I said what I see when I watch makes sense though. I don't feel like it is wrong.
 
TheBigIguana said:
No I think we can find competent goalkeeping at much less. And maybe sell Pickford at the same time for more than we'd be paying for a similar level replacement. Which is very helpful because we need every dollar for the rest of the team and Pickford has shown he's not good enough to move the needle for us.
Click to expand...
Any idea who these competent keepers are?
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome to GrandOldTeam

Get involved. Registration is simple and free.

Register
Back
Top