Transfer Rumour Joshua Zirkzee

[jazzy]

Under 24 centre forwards id say

Haaland / Mbappe then DCL / Richarlison

Then perhaps Kean will be following them and maybe We turn Zirkzee into one as well...

This must be the best example of Evertonians over rating their own players.

Don't get me wrong I think that both DCL and Richarlison are very good players but to put them in the top 4 under 24 strikers is way off the mark.

Zat -if you are talking about the best young strikers playing in Europe....

Marcus Rashford 51 goals for United in 161 games and 11 for England in 40.

What about Lautoro Martinez 29 in 80 for Inter and 21 in 11 for Argentina.

Also consider Gabriel Jesus 43 in 110 for City and 18 in 41 for Brazil.

I'd also have Jadon Sancho in the top drawer along with Haaland and Mbappe - only 32 in 93 for Dortmund and 3 in 18 for England - mind you he mostly plays wide.

Timo Werner just misses out due to age but despite his current blip due to age he's up there.

For me DCL and Richarlison fall into the 2nd category of young strikers.

DCL's record 35 in 135 for the mighty Blues and 2 in 5 for England ( I acknowledge that there is more to his game than scoring but then the others have different attributes too ) is ok but not wonderful , but has shown a massive improvement recently.

Richarlison - 28 in 83 for us and 8 in 23 for Brazil.

In the same category I'd consider :

Maxi Gomez - 45 in 118 in La Liga and 3 in 19 for Uraguay.

Alexander Isak - only 13 in 52 for Sociedad but 5 in 18 for Sweden.

Moussa Dembele - 32 in 76 for Lyon.

Patrik Schick - 16 in 35 in Bundesliga and 9 in 22 for Czech Republic.

Luca Jovic - 5 in 11 for Serbia and 27 in 56 for Frankfurt ( although he bombed at Madrid )

And even Tammy Abraham 21 in 52 for Chelsea and 1 in 6 games for England.

Finally to show how money doesn't buy you everything

Viniscus Junior only 7 in 62 for Real Madrid depite a £38 million price tag and even better Ousmane Dembele costing Barca £100 million.

So in conclusion neither DCL or Richarlison would make my top 5 but both wouldget in to the top10 and for Everton to have 2 of the best young strikers in Europe in their team is incredible.

 

[catcherintherye]

As me and @Terrarian have said, you guys really need to learn how to read. But yes, my 'standard' for being a 'top, top, player' is pretty close to being a generational player.

Right. What's your point, and how is this relevant?





There's some actual kopite level delusion going on in here. I'm starting to think this is some Forum Supporters inside joke, post some ridiculous bs and see who we can get to bite!!

Feel free to provide the stats for the last few seasons of all his competitors PL only, no penalty goals. Take out free kicks while you're at it. I'm not really interested in those stats tho, cos a lot of players don't play a full season. Once again I'll give Kane as an example: only reason he hasn't hit 25 PL goals the last 5/6 seasons in a row is because he only played 28/9 games the last couple of seasons. And yes he takes penalties, but how many of those did he earn from situations when he probably would have scored himself?

There's a reason I exclude penalties, as really they are a bit of a bonus goal. I don't think you earn them in quite the same way. This is not uncommon.

Calvert Lewin got 13 without pens last season and has 11 without pens this. That is outstanding consistency. The majority of the list are not at that level or even close. The lad has been criminally underrated since he arrived here. He's a world class striker now, not just in terms of his goalscoring but also more broadly in terms of what he gives the team.

The only one who can hold a candle to him is Kane. I think Calvert Lewin is the better number 9, but Kane is the better footballer.

 

[catcherintherye]

This must be the best example of Evertonians over rating their own players.

Don't get me wrong I think that both DCL and Richarlison are very good players but to put them in the top 4 under 24 strikers is way off the mark.

Zat -if you are talking about the best young strikers playing in Europe....

Marcus Rashford 51 goals for United in 161 games and 11 for England in 40.

What about Lautoro Martinez 29 in 80 for Inter and 21 in 11 for Argentina.

Also consider Gabriel Jesus 43 in 110 for City and 18 in 41 for Brazil.

I'd also have Jadon Sancho in the top drawer along with Haaland and Mbappe - only 32 in 93 for Dortmund and 3 in 18 for England - mind you he mostly plays wide.

Timo Werner just misses out due to age but despite his current blip due to age he's up there.

For me DCL and Richarlison fall into the 2nd category of young strikers.

DCL's record 35 in 135 for the mighty Blues and 2 in 5 for England ( I acknowledge that there is more to his game than scoring but then the others have different attributes too ) is ok but not wonderful , but has shown a massive improvement recently.

Richarlison - 28 in 83 for us and 8 in 23 for Brazil.

In the same category I'd consider :

Maxi Gomez - 45 in 118 in La Liga and 3 in 19 for Uraguay.

Alexander Isak - only 13 in 52 for Sociedad but 5 in 18 for Sweden.

Moussa Dembele - 32 in 76 for Lyon.

Patrik Schick - 16 in 35 in Bundesliga and 9 in 22 for Czech Republic.

Luca Jovic - 5 in 11 for Serbia and 27 in 56 for Frankfurt ( although he bombed at Madrid )

And even Tammy Abraham 21 in 52 for Chelsea and 1 in 6 games for England.

Finally to show how money doesn't buy you everything

Viniscus Junior only 7 in 62 for Real Madrid depite a £38 million price tag and even better Ousmane Dembele costing Barca £100 million.

So in conclusion neither DCL or Richarlison would make my top 5 but both wouldget in to the top10 and for Everton to have 2 of the best young strikers in Europe in their team is incredible.

Lets have a look at that top category of young strikers then. Comparing apples with apples- number of league goals not scored via penalties over the last 2 years,
DCL: 13 & 11
Rashford: 11 & 7
Martinez: 13 & 9
Werner: 25 & 4
Jesus: 14 & 2
Sancho: 17 & 2

Not only does DCL deserve to be in that category, but in many ways he's right at the top of that list. Particularly when you factor in the lack of service he ha compared to others, and what he does for the team overall.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Not happening this is it.

 

[Toffeelover]

Not happening this is it.

Still time if he is really wanted.

 

[Philw]

There's a reason I exclude penalties, as really they are a bit of a bonus goal. I don't think you earn them in quite the same way. This is not uncommon.

Calvert Lewin got 13 without pens last season and has 11 without pens this. That is outstanding consistency. The majority of the list are not at that level or even close. The lad has been criminally underrated since he arrived here. He's a world class striker now, not just in terms of his goalscoring but also more broadly in terms of what he gives the team.

The only one who can hold a candle to him is Kane. I think Calvert Lewin is the better number 9, but Kane is the better footballer.

Yes this is true. But sometimes someone would have been about to score, gets fouled, but takes the penalty anyway so doesn't lose or gain anything through it. Conversely someone else may take the penalty, or it was someone else that was fouled, or even the miss the pen. The only way to be truly fair is to judge each penalty situation and add the goals as deemed fair, but be arsed with all that effort!!

I mean, talk about going from massively underrating him to massively overrating him!

His goal scoring is much improved, and his heading and hold up play and getting others involved is excellent, but there are other factors that are still very lacking. His overall control and technique are not that strong imo, and he is not really a threat outside of the box, or in creating scoring opportunities for himself or others.

Aside from his heading, and maybe his hold up play, I would say Kane is ahead in every other technical category. Tbh I don't think it's even that close.

Lets have a look at that top category of young strikers then. Comparing apples with apples- number of league goals not scored via penalties over the last 2 years,
DCL: 13 & 11
Rashford: 11 & 7
Martinez: 13 & 9
Werner: 25 & 4
Jesus: 14 & 2
Sancho: 17 & 2

Not only does DCL deserve to be in that category, but in many ways he's right at the top of that list. Particularly when you factor in the lack of service he ha compared to others, and what he does for the team overall.

Early in the season when he was scoring it was because he was having plenty of chances set up for him. We've stopped creating so much and that is part of why his scoring has dried up. But as I alluded to above, to be a top striker/forward you need to be able to create your own scoring opportunities. Guys like Rashford, Jesus, Sancho, do that. As well as that Sancho is much more of a winger than a forward even, so unfair to compare goal tallies directly. You also have to take into account that DCL has basically been our only striker most of the last two years, whereas the other on that list largely share with, or sit behind, another striker/forward.

 

[jazzy]

There's a reason I exclude penalties, as really they are a bit of a bonus goal. I don't think you earn them in quite the same way. This is not uncommon.

Calvert Lewin got 13 without pens last season and has 11 without pens this. That is outstanding consistency. The majority of the list are not at that level or even close. The lad has been criminally underrated since he arrived here. He's a world class striker now, not just in terms of his goalscoring but also more broadly in terms of what he gives the team.

The only one who can hold a candle to him is Kane. I think Calvert Lewin is the better number 9, but Kane is the better footballer.

I agree with you about penalties but to suggest that DCL is the same level as Kane is madness.

Just look at the assists ( as well as goals ).

If both DCL and Kane came on the market there is only one player that the elite teams would go for and it's not DCL.

 

[Baines' left foot]

Mate let's get it right, over the past 12 months he's got 13 league goals, 11 of them which come in a spell of 2/3 months, DCL is a good young forward who has improved massively, but hes a million miles away from being the best in the world.

Haaland is younger and is a far better striker

Too right mate imagine thinking DCL is that good. Absolute state of him he’s had a mare

 

[Deco]

See below:

I don't think we can be much clearer.

I think you're giving Marcel and co a little more credit than they deserve here.

Doubt it...

DCL to Haaland is not like Kane to Ronaldo.....

I don't follow other leagues that closely, but there's enough in the Prem alone without extending that to Europe and including all the Haalands, Mbappes etc etc.

"I don't think we can be much clearer" - then saying he was lucky to be in the position for game time when that's exactly what I responded to in my post lol this is amazing. He isn't lucky that he was in that position, he was put into it by the club who saw his potential.

Why isn't DCL to Haaland a good comparison to Kane and Ronaldo? To me Haaland is the next "Ronaldo level" and DCL is in the next bracket below him in his age group as one of the best around but not the best.

Interesting that we have all these in the prem that you can't name? For me I'd say Greenwood, Rashford, Werner (who might never even make it in the prem) who are comparable strikers quality/potential wise. For the best league in the world, it shows that he's right up there.

 

[Deco]

Lets have a look at that top category of young strikers then. Comparing apples with apples- number of league goals not scored via penalties over the last 2 years,
DCL: 13 & 11
Rashford: 11 & 7
Martinez: 13 & 9
Werner: 25 & 4
Jesus: 14 & 2
Sancho: 17 & 2

Not only does DCL deserve to be in that category, but in many ways he's right at the top of that list. Particularly when you factor in the lack of service he ha compared to others, and what he does for the team overall.

Brilliant post.

Considering Martinez starts for a top 3, very expensively assembled team in a worse league, and others like Jesus don't offer anywhere near as much in games as DCL I think it proves the point of the level he's at.

 

[Brisan123]

Any chance the mods could get this thread back on topic?

Snitch

 

[COYBL25]

Keep going lads, it's a superb argument. No one really knows what they're saying, what they've already said, what they're trying to say or what they mean by what they say. Great stuff.

I agree with you there mate.

 

[Brisan123]

I agree with you there mate.

I blame the multi quote function myself
Its a well known fact men cannot multitask
If you try and answer 5 posts at once you are bound to mess up and get confused
I call it a dose of the Zats and even @GrandOldTeam himself got infected

 

[catcherintherye]

I agree with you about penalties but to suggest that DCL is the same level as Kane is madness.

Just look at the assists ( as well as goals ).

If both DCL and Kane came on the market there is only one player that the elite teams would go for and it's not DCL.

I would say, as goalscorers they are similar now. Kane is the better all round player, as you would expect from someone who is 28 over 23.

I doubt Calvert Lewin will reach the heights Kane did, but moving forward, as of today, they are similar. A 25 year old Kane is a better goal scorer than this DCL.

 

[catcherintherye]

Yes this is true. But sometimes someone would have been about to score, gets fouled, but takes the penalty anyway so doesn't lose or gain anything through it. Conversely someone else may take the penalty, or it was someone else that was fouled, or even the miss the pen. The only way to be truly fair is to judge each penalty situation and add the goals as deemed fair, but be arsed with all that effort!!

I mean, talk about going from massively underrating him to massively overrating him!

His goal scoring is much improved, and his heading and hold up play and getting others involved is excellent, but there are other factors that are still very lacking. His overall control and technique are not that strong imo, and he is not really a threat outside of the box, or in creating scoring opportunities for himself or others.

Aside from his heading, and maybe his hold up play, I would say Kane is ahead in every other technical category. Tbh I don't think it's even that close.

Early in the season when he was scoring it was because he was having plenty of chances set up for him. We've stopped creating so much and that is part of why his scoring has dried up. But as I alluded to above, to be a top striker/forward you need to be able to create your own scoring opportunities. Guys like Rashford, Jesus, Sancho, do that. As well as that Sancho is much more of a winger than a forward even, so unfair to compare goal tallies directly. You also have to take into account that DCL has basically been our only striker most of the last two years, whereas the other on that list largely share with, or sit behind, another striker/forward.

But in the above, there is no reason why a player who is fouled is any more likely to get the penalty than one who isn't. So I personally don't really take too much notice of penalty stats. I remember we signed Andy Johnson one season, who scored loads of goals but most were pens. As soon as he didnt get pens here, he bombed.

I don't think I've overrated him at all. I have presented evidence to show, in terms of goals scored he stacks up favourably with any striker in the league. That makes him one of the best in the league. It's not an opinion, it's just analysing the evidence.

As for the final points, you're completely wrong on that. Calvert Lewin makes his own chances far more than the others. He has far less chances made for him. He basically scores goals with his head nobody else can, as he's about 8 ft up in the air. Rashford, Sancho and Jesus would not score as many goals here as they are not being supplied by Pogba, Fernandes, Cavani, KDB, Silva, Gundogan, Foden etc.

We can keep going round the houses with this. The evidence is very clear, that Calvert Lewin is amongst the best goalscorers in European football over the last couple of years.

As for my opinion? Having watched loads, like Werner, Abraham, Lacazette, Aubameyang, Kane, Son etc this season against us, none of them are fit to lace his boots. But thats why opinions are flawed as they are based on 1 game. I tend to look at the evidence and let that guide me.